definition of above shower for lighting zones

"Zone 1 - the area directly above zone 0, limited to a height of 2.25m above the bath or shower."

I'm just wondering how you measure this in relation to the shower. The diagrams (e.g.

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I've seen suggest it's above the shower tray. Common sense suggests that consideration ought to be given to the location of the shower head but this doesn't seem to be the case.

If my ceiling is for example 2.3m above the shower tray, can I legally fit any recessed light regardless of its IP rating.

Thanks.

Reply to
kdband
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) I've seen suggest it's above the shower tray. Common sense suggests

In principle yes, however you also need to be wary of the requirement to use accessories appropriate for the location concerned. So 2.3m over a bath is likely to be fine with most fittings, whereas 2.3m over a high pressure shower may generate too much steam/water vapour for some fittings - it may not be unsafe, but by the same token you don't want something that will rust or otherwise look tatty in short order.

Reply to
John Rumm

Thanks John. I realise that the legal requirement may not also be the most sensible. In fact this is the way it was done in the main bathroom and I was wondering whether I could do the same thing in the en-suite.

Reply to
kdband

The bit about suitability is also a wiring regs derived rule (don't recall the number of the top of my head). However it is really just a way of "regulating" one use common sense.

Reply to
John Rumm

OK, but don't we then get drawn into arguments about the definition of suitability. i.e. is a fitting suitable unless it explicitly says 'not suitable for use in a bathroom', or on the other hand is it unsuitable unless it explictly says 'suitable for use in a bathroom'. The only ones I recall seeing marked as suitable have been rated for use in zones 1 or 2. I don't ever recall seeing any as marked as suitable for bathroom zone3 only.

BTW, the ones I was actually thinking of using are :-

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've used them elsewhere in the house and they are obviously good value, especially compared against the zone2 rated ones which are at least =A38.00 each, but if they're not up to the job, I guess I'd rather know that now.

Reply to
kdband

Zone 3 as a concept went with the 17th edition anyway - but even prior to that was not that different from outside of the zones.

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The thing to check with lights like that is they possibly don't have a glass protector over the lamp. As a result that could mean a splash would immediately hit the front of the bulb itself, and that would probably cause it to explode. You can work out the implications of standing in a shower tray full of broken glass!

Personally I would be happy enough using lamps like those[1] over a bath, but not a shower unless the ceilings are very high and the shower is relatively low pressure.

[1] Not that I am a great fan of mains halogens in the first place. I would always recommend using low voltage ones.
Reply to
John Rumm

One definition of the new rules (defined by the ECA ISTR) defined zone 1 something along the lines of "the area where the individual is bathing or showering, or the area where water may be sprayed"

Any chance children or Grandchildren may bugger about with the shower?

A fitting is judged suitable by its IP rating:) And I do see you the point you are making.

Quite a lot of light fittings say for use in bathrooms and then in the small print say zone 3 only.

Someone will have to tell the manufacturers that zone 3 no longer exists.

edition. You might be better off with 12v SELV equivalents of the lights you have looked at. They are certainly not £8 each though.

Adam

Reply to
ARWadsworth

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>>> I've used them elsewhere in the house and they are obviously good

I would buy the £3.88 IP65 ones from toolstation myself. They did some for £1.95 in Oct 2008 as I bought some but they have gone up.

Reply to
dennis

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) I've seen suggest it's above the shower tray.

It's simpler than that; zones 1 and 2 both finish at 2250 mm above the finished _floor_ level, regardless of the height of the bath or shower tray.

No, because there's a general requirement for all equipment to be suitable for the installed location. In this case a bare bulb in a battenholder might not be suitable, while an enclosed luminaire (with no particular IP rating) might be...

You understand the need for all new or altered bathroom circuits to be RCD protected now (17th edition)? This includes mains voltage lighting.

Reply to
Andy Wade

Yep, recently had a new consumer unit (professionally) fitted and all everything is now RCD protected so that's one thing I don't need to worry about. On the other hand, I now have to stumble through the house in the dark to reset the RCD trip each time a bulb blows, so is it really safer ?

The screwfix set, does include halogen bulbs, and I do appreciate the point about it exploding if it comes into contact with water. As it happens I will probably replace the bulbs with their LED equivalents when they blow out and I think the explosion argument is less likely. That said, I think I will use these for the majority of the bathroom, but use a more suitable fitting above the shower, hopefully I can find one that matches reasonably well with the rest of them.

Thanks for all the advise.

Reply to
kdband

One doesn't normally RCD protect the lighting circuits I believe, for this reason.

Reply to
Bob Mannix

You do under 17th...

Of course the injuries and fatalities to people stumbling about in the dark will be records as "falls" not "electrocution" so the overall increase in accidents won't show up in the offcial record clearly.

Reply to
Dave Liquorice

The RCD should not trip on a bulb blowing (the MCB might[1]). If the RCD does trip then this is a nuisance tripping problem that should be corrected.

Also the lighting circuits should be arranged such that if the RCD protecting some lights does trip, there should be others on a separate RCD that do not.

(if your CU only has one RCD then you may wish to have the electrician mount his horse and return to do it properly!)

Indeed. It will also be dim enough as to not make much difference to the light!

[1] GU10 mains halogens being one of the most likely bulb types for doing this. Fitting type C MCBs on light circuits may help, or using cartridge fuse holders. Having said that, I have seen a GU10 take out a rewireable fuse.
Reply to
John Rumm

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