Why?
You come across a cable, pink, yellow, brown, blue, whatever.
Until you assign an indicator, it is neither alive nor dead.
The wiring regs do not necessarily apply. It might be part of an aircraft infrastructure for instance, in which case the wiring regs have no relevance anyway. Yet until "measured" the cable will still not be dead, or alive of course.
Unless you can prove otherwise :-)
AB
From the organ grinders echo?
:-)
AB
Because if said cable is connected directly to 240V at an energised consumer unit for example, then it *is* a live wire regardless of whether current is being drawn.
If you have an unknown wire, then you treat it as live until you can prove its dead.
Are you suggesting that the circuit will in some way become self aware and alter its wiring in response to it being labelled?
If its unknown, then you treat it as live until tested.
You and parrot boy should get a room.
If the wire is connected to 240V, then it is a live wire that's bloody obvious, congratulations you have managed to comprehend the so totally blleding obvious that I bet you can even put plugs on :-)
Depends what you mean by unknown, what parameter, Voltage, current, colour, material?
Of course not, that's stupid. It will remain neither dead nor alive until an observation of the charge is made.
No need to, if it's unknown it's neither dead nor alive. Best not use a wet finger as the measuring device though, it isn't a pleasant way to detect 240V
It was a pussy cat actually and he [or she] has a safe [or "coffin"].
AB
and you remain neither sane nor insane until you can prove your sanity. Which appears to not be possible.
Porr old Pork Sword Blinking Soppy - he doesnt really understand Schrödinger , but he has HEARD of him.
He appears to be conflating quantum indeterminancy with more general philosophical questions of the existence of the unobserved. Neither provide a useful or safe (or even theoretically valid) guide for the practical electrician.
Strange colour for copper to come in or are yuo refering to the insulation covering the conductors ?
It is what it is, like a tree in a forest it still exists even if you aren't there to see it.
It could just be on the end of the reel used as a cat toy.
Wiring regs only aply if the cable is wired up, there are no wiring regs for cable sitting on a shelf.
Most have set up and understanding of what is meant by dead or alive some think it's Pete Burns which can be a result of hanging on to live cable if your name is pete.
Ypou can find out if a cable is dead or alive by inserting it into you urethra, and this advice goes nicely with the subject of this thread :-D
Try it and let us know.
Precisely. By the time the electricain HAS touched it, its existence is verified.
And unless teh electri8ci9anm has as little sense as PorkSword he willo have observed it first, thereby rendering it live, or not, depending on it's connectivity and its label.
>
Not to you apparently, a moment ago you said: "No, With no load it is neither alive nor dead".
So you admit that was bollocks then?
More blather.
Oh do behave.
I hear some powerfully dumb stuff here at times, but you are pushing the envelope!
That would constitute a measurement. The act of doing this would make the cable live, or dead.
That's not proving otherwise. Connecting any load is in fact making an observation, whether the load be a DMM or an organic breathing entity.
AB
Why not?
It slots in with the job perfectly, until an observation is made the cable is neither alive nor dead, what could be a better approach? Grab the thing and use your body to determine that it's at 240V, or buy a brand spanking new flatscreen and find that the entire properties energy input is via gas.
Personally I would make the observation with a DMM. The 10Meg input resistance would be more than enough to take the cable into a definable voltage range.
AB
It already is!! The PD is there, irregardless of you connecting anything. Inductive reasoning from knowing what happens at the other end and making the reasonable assumption that the cable contains continous length(s) of conductive copper is perfectly sufficient for
*truth* with a high degree of probability. No test is necessary! No current flow is necessary.
Stop talking sense Roger. Let him enjoy his planet in peace.
Roger appears to have made the measurement at the point the cable is connected to, thus the point is live and the cable becomes live.
If the cable did not contain continuous lengths of conductive copper then depending on the resistance the cable could once again become live, or not as the case may be.
This incidentally would tend to be a theoretical situation because the levels of resistance needed would not be produced by manufacturing flaws.
AB
No it would not.
then define load?, is the insulation around the conductor a load ? IS the air a load, the only thing that can't be considered a load is a vacuum.
On Tuesday, 24 April 2018 17:42:25 UTC+1, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wr ote:
Because it doesn't belong.
No the cable is considered dead or alive, you're ability to precieve it is the problem. Firstly how do you know it's a cable ? Or is it a wire or a lead, how do you know it;s a conductor ?
Best option would be to see what it was conencted to.
WTF.
You can measure with a DMM you observe with your eyes or ears but that won' t tell you whether you're correct or not.
Another meaningless statement "definable voltage range" what does that mean ?
The load can be anything that transmits the status of the conductor to the observer.
AB
I don't. If you recollect the original question related to cables, which are usually "dead" or carrying a current.
It may well be something completely different, but as you have failed to grasp the point with what is arguably the simplest example, can I suggest that you do not try to stray beyond the cable for the present?
"VERB
notice or perceive (something) and register it as being significant."
The observation will take the cable into a state where it can supply your flat screen TV, or not!
Whatever you want it to mean. What would you want as live? 110V, 240,
415?Until the measurement the cable could be any, or none of these.
AB
A true genius! I find it amazing how someone could predict wireless, Terry Wogan and Monty Python even before Marconi was born.
The only load in a vaccum would be the insulation. A conductor on its own would remain unobserved and thus neither dead nor alive.
Such a postulation would be very silly though, because you could not have a vacuum. Assuming it occupies the same universe there will be no vacuum as only a few million light years from the subject there will no doubt be metals or charged gasses for it to affect.
AB
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