My terraced house was built in 1880. When I bought it 12 years ago it had timber and damp work done with a 25 yr guarantee in the kitchen. The damp reappeared on an inside arch wall between kitchen/dining area
8 foot away from the outer wall about 5 years ago. I didnt do anything about it at the time because I didnt want to have to take out my newly installed kitchen but now the plaster has fallen off and its a mess.
The company that did the work originally want =A3500 to come and assess it and say they will refund if it is fond to be their fault. What are the chances of that happening? Would I be wasting my money? If so what should I do???? My kitchen shares a wall with my neighbour's bathroom
Rather silly doing that - as the company could well say that by doing what you did, has exacerbated the problem and made any repair very difficult now. Also, there could well be a clause in the contract stating the you have to mitigate any damage that appears after the works have been completed - this was obviously not done in your case.
That amount to *assess* works that are under guarantee! Someone's extracting the urine there (on the information you give).
Tell them to show where in the guarantee contract document does it say that you have to pay such an extortionate fee, or any fee at all to assess possibly defective work - and if there isn't, then tell them that they are breaking their contract with you. *YOU**DO* have such a document - don't you [1]?
When the original contract carried out, was the contractor made aware of this situation - and if he was, was any work done in the neighbour's property as well as yours?
[1] Whether a *contractors* or an *insurance* based contract.
The work was done prior to my purchase as a condition of mortgage - on paper I paid for it although sellers actually did and arranged it. They only treated one side of the arch divider wall affected and didnt remove the kitchen units that were there at the time. I dont suppose they had any involvement with the neighbours situation.
Does it say in that document that you have to pay an assessment fee before they examine the problem? If it does, then you are stuck with paying that fee first, if not, then you may have to do battle to get them there. This may be a little easier to sort out if the guarantee is underwritten by an independent insurance company rather then the contractors guarantee.
Then you may have a major problem on your hands to get this sorted out, especially if after the assessment, the firm says that the damp is being caused by the untreated areas - and it can be proved that therein lies the problem.
It may be worth your while to get employ your own surveyor to ascertain where the problem lies first (and this should be a damn-site cheaper than
500 smackers).
As a matter of interest, have you checked behind the kitchen units or appliances to see if there is any leaking pipework?
Another clue may be as to where the damp is showing - if it's showing from floor level to about a metre in height, then it's almost certain to be rising damp (in the absence of leaking pipes that is) and any higher than that [1], it could be damp penetrating the wall from something like a leaking pipe or poorly sealed shower cubicle next door.
There is another possibilty, and that is that the wall rendering and plastering could be touching the kitchen floor (rather than stopping about
25mm up) - and that could be 'sucking' any condensation or leakage up the wall.
[1] The wall is dry below the metre but wet above it, then that lessens the possibilty of rising damp (but not totally)
I would still not expect it to be cheap. An independant surveyor that looked at roof for me and it cost nearly £200. The itemised bill including travel time, time on site and time to prepare the report.
I think this is missing the point. The type of work such companies do is normally entirely inappropriate for historic properties, which handle damp quite differently to new builds. Looking to them for a repeat solution is like looking to a preacher for a cure for cancer.
In most cases damp is simple and cheap to fix, not usually any need to pay =A3200. All you need do is understand it, look for the cause and repair it.
A new build shouldn't have *any* damp problesm unless something is leaking... but yes understanding the building and its construction is the key.
I get the feeling that the wall in question is an orginal internal wall built directly into the ground without a damp proof course. For some strange reason the damp company treated this wall in the first place and then only one side. Presumably with an injection based damp treatment.
Damp is, of course, still rising on the untreated side and has now blown the plaster off, no big surprise there.
I think the only recourse now is to treat the untreated side as you can't remove an injection damp treatment.
The original house had a double storey extension added on in the 30's and then a single storey bathroom on the back of that in the 50's - its a typical 'L' shaped Victorian terrace. The wall between was converted into an arch pre my purchase - one long kitchen/diner room with arch. The damp is in the base of the arch wall (the wall protrudes into the room about a metre). The damp goes about a metre high on both sides (treated side and untreatedside) but doesnt seem to go back to the party wall - so yes its the original 1930-50 outside wall. The floor is concrete with no signs of damp and there is a small gap between plaster and floor (or was!).
The guarantee isn't underwritten, is the company's own - and having just looked at it again, says in very small print on the back 'an re- inspection fee may be charged' - so I guess they've covered themselves.
My dad also suggested there might still be an unsealed pipe embedded in the wall from the time when it was a bathroom - is there any way of detecting that without pulling the whole wall apart?
I must admit that at the moment I am stymied as to the cause and shooting in the dark now, but could you tell us if the wall finish is the old black mortar or a cement render and skim?
The reason for this is that the black mortar could simply have become hygroscopic with age and is sucking condensation (such as from the kitchen) out of the air (sounds daft, but I have seen this on several very old buildings, especially with high level damp patches) and the permanent cure is simply to hack it all off and render and skim the wall.
A bit of a bummer there - but is the company prepared to negotiate the fee downwards?
That is a possibility but I would have thought unlikely (unless the wall or finish is rather thick - and if that were the case, then I would suggest that the cause would be a pinhole rather than an "unsealed" end caused by whatever finish is on the wall reacting with the metal pipe.
Now how to find it if a pipe is there...?
If it's possibly a ferrous pipe, then a metal detector could do the trick, if it's non-ferrous, then you could try a moisture meter and see where the highest reading is and start at that point (don't hold your breath though as it probably won't work.).
Personally I think I would be looking to hacking the wall finish off on both sides (especially as you say it's already damaged) and then leaving at that for a time to see if the bare wall dries out completely - or if a damp patch is seen in a particular area with the rest of the wall dry.
A surveyor would come one day and give an opinion and a bioll.
But if you DIY it you can strip the plaster, test for dampness, see if it dries and how it dries, draw a graph of dampness versus time versus weather, see if it gets wetter in rainy weather, with the wind from what direction, get to understand your roof and walls interfaces, do a far better job than a surveyor or what the original builders did- but it will take ten times as long!
is the water coming from your neighbour's shower, or the roof?
pull up a floorboard - is the ground underneath damp? is there a stream running underneath your house?
I offered a link that explains the basic concepts, you can read it if you wish. Then I suggested the OP ask there, many folk there have done their reading and their practical work. None of its my ideas, its fairly well worn stuff.
Dear Eden I now have a moment to help but no data so...
Dampness can be of four different types Condensation, lateral penetration, pipe leaks and rising damp True rising damp comes from the ground up the MORTAR of the walls and into the plaster. It takes decades to do this and is caused by hygroscopic salt deposition. Dicegeorge has some valid points. What I would do is to get a resistance damp meter and draw an isometric sketch of the area in question and map out a profile or contour of the dampness on the walls in question. A pattern of slightly damp at floor level and a high tide mark within abouut a metre of the wall and dry above with the whole being horizontally evenly distributed and no free water is indicative of rising damp varying heights and black mould with possibly free water is condensation local spot radiating out could be a pipe leak etc etc
Variation with the weather is also an indication of hygrosopicity
Now to comment on this shower of ***te.
25 years is not a standard BWPDA BCDA PCA etc guarantee time. As you so rightly observe there is no GPT back up insurance or even a manufacturers insurance. The insurance is only as good as the company's assets
I would not waste your time with them other than to say =A3500 inspection is tantamount to an unfair contract term, that you are doing your own diagnosis, that you will send them the results of tests and if it is RD that you expect them to repair it under the terms of the guarantee and not only that under the main contract terms which is that the work is fit for the purpose and that either way, guarantee or breach of contract, you will have the work done by others and that you expect them to pay the bill. You will give them access at any reasonable time to make their own tests and for their expert to come and prepare a report as you expect that they will want this should the matter go to court!
I would not bother other than to wiite the letter as if you mean to You could even send them a draft pleading on the Court;s plaint forms (sorry 'Claimant' forms) - that shoulld concentrate the minds
To fix the problem I suggest you determine the nature of the plaster I would not mind betting IF the problem is in the areas of treatment that they have put on the wrong plaster perhaps a gypsum based one such as Carlite or just weak sand cement Find out
If the probem in in another area not treated, it is now far too late to sue for negligent surveying and you must just get on with it Were you to send a photo and more data I could help you
Most surveyors are not competent
The PCA has independent consultants but this is too small a job for the fee to be worthwhile and you better spend the money (=A3500 or whatever) on new plaster
1&2. Don't want to name the company on here but have checked BWPDA & PCA websites and they arent listed.
Yes they plastered with a 'specialist Limelite plaster' - report said walls contaminated with hygroscopic salts (still present on wall).
Not clear, but think just dpc - guarantee actually for 30 yrs not
25 as I stated before.
Reading again through the report supplied initially I think part of the problem may be that they requested all fittings i.e. kitchen cabinets removed before treatment which wasnt done (I didnt own the house at the time and it was unoccupied) so they just treated around them - this meant only one side and a small bit on the other of the offending wall was treated.
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