Corner bead router cutter

[robkgraham]

I'm wanting to put corner beads onto some facings but can only find ones in which the groove is a flat bottomed trench rather than a V which I would prefer. Can anyone advise please.

Rob

[The3rd Earl Of Derby]

Aldi had a set of 10 router bits 2 weeks ago for £4.99 there is still quite a few boxes in my local Aldi, try you're nearest Aldi.

-- Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

[The3rd Earl Of Derby]

This is the type of one of the bits in the Aldi set which I think you're after?

Benjamin Middlethwaite

[david lang]

What? Define corner beads, facings and a 'V' and we might have some idea of which you speak.

Dave

[The3rd Earl Of Derby]

Its quite simple he wants to cut 'V' shaped channels in some wood architrave so it'll give a fancy appearence rather than a flat dull looking one. :-)

-- Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

[david lang]

So where does the corner bead come in, and what is the bit about flat bottoms M'Lud?

Dave

[david lang]

Still no sure of which you speak, but have a look here

Trend ain't not got one - give up!

Dave

[The3rd Earl Of Derby]

It does'nt he's tried to express it and used the wrong word "bead" = "channel", the flat bottom is what you get when using a fluted straight bit, a runner channel if you like.

-- Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

[Andy Dingley]

Use a scratch stock (or make or yourself). Routers, by their nature, will never cut as sharp a vee as a linear cutter.

[robkgraham]

Little disappointed that I'm having to define a 'corner bead'. Axminster and Trend both identifiy their router cutters as this.

?pf_id=22911&name=corner%20beed%20router&sfile=1&jump=0Now the characteristic of both of these and others is that the groove, or if you look at the picture of either of these, the bottom section of the cutter, is square across and what I would prefer from looking at some older mouldings, is that this is a V, rather than a U, if you like.

There is no way I'm going to use a scratch block on facings round four doors, and there is also the possibility that there is 200 ft of pine to be moulded.

Hope this explains better !!

Rob

[The3rd Earl Of Derby]

> and

> Now the characteristic of both of these and others is that the groove,

oops! I'll get me coat.

But I would like to know why you didn't post the links in the first place?

-- Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

[owdman]

Very few router cutters bear any resemblance to traditional mouldings. Don't know why this is - I guess the cutter "designers" have simply not bothered to look at trad woodwork examples and have just made them up instead. The beading cutters available are a perfect example of this - there is no reason for such a simple design not to exactly replicate a trad design but they just don't bother - as a result so much router work looks crap. If you want to do it properly either 1 use a hand moulding plane - lots of old ones still available for sale and cheaper than a router cutter, or 2 make your own spindle moulder cutter, or 3 get a router cutter made up or modified by a saw doctor or engineering shop. What are "facings"?

cheers

Jacob

[Rob Morley]

Can't you just make your own granny's tooth to cut the final bit of the vee?

[The3rd Earl Of Derby]

>>> and

>>> Now the characteristic of both of these and others is that the

The way I see it now is he wants a raised 'V' so could you not use one of these...

give you this VVVV using correctly spaced marked lines down the facing(architrave), or is this again not what your after?

-- Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

[Andy Dingley]

Why not ? Andif it's a lot, then find a wooden moulding plane to use. I've just done a frame-and-panel chest in oak that was about 50' of small bead on the edges of each frame, then bigger mouldings around the lid. All of this was done with wooden moulders, because they give the best results. I also used a scrath stock for the ends of the stopped mouldings. I'm not going to screw up a job like that by letting a router or a spindle moulder near it!

You will just never get a router cutter to make as sharp a vee in a moulding as you can easily get by hand.

If it's only pine, then use a router. It won't take such a fine moulding anyway. If it's 200' then it's probably hemlock rather than a true pine and that's also a pig to work with a moulding plane.

[Andy Dingley]

That will work in theory but the practice is an extremely uneven thickness of ridge (actually an "arris" between flutes). It's partly because of the angle amplifying movement in the plane into a larger perpendicular movement. Mainly though it's because you're relying on a tiny difference between two larger measurements (fence to cutter). Any tiny proportional error in the fence difference is actually a huge difference in ridge width.

[owdman]

Spindle moulder is the best possible tool for accurate repro of period mouldings especially if large quantity is involved - as long as you make your own cutters to match, easier than it sounds.

Router cutter could do it but they just don't make them that way.

Only pine! Whats wrong with pine? Most of Britains best Georgian/Victorian joinery is made of pine and is superb in quality/design/durability etc. Pine will take just as fine a moulding as any other wood - no problem, infact is easier to machine than most hardwoods, given selected good quality material and sharp cutters.

cheers

Jacob

[Andy Hall]

So how do you, Jacob?

People seem to have different ways of making them......

I'm interested in the cutting, shaping and sharpening methods used.

Do you bother to make limiters for example?

[owdman]

Andy Hall wrote:

Start with pair blank HSS plates big enough for the moulding you want. You make a pair but only one cuts the other is for balance i.e. doing it by hand and eye is difficult to make them both cut - not not necessary anyway. Next transfer the design to the plates - I'm usually copying existing so I simply trace around a cleaned up sample with a pencil on to the plate previously paint-aerosoled to take pencil marks. Next rough out the waste with an angle grinder. Then grind out the profile with a bench grinder and various sizes of wheel as necessary - checking by offering up the original. This is all square-on so far. Next back off the profile to make a cutting edge. Then fine adjust the edge by offering up the original sample piece - AT THE ANGLE OF CUT as near as possible - i.e. the hollows will be made deeper etc. Grind away until there is a perfect fit and a sufficiently backed off cutting edge. This sounds imprecise as it depends on hand and eye but the results can be perfect with a bit of practice. Do it in front of a good light so you can see where the cutter doesn't meet the sample. You could make limiters if you really want to but I use the old Whitehill blocks (pre-safety regs) as these permit very fine adjustment and alteration of the angle. You just have to be more careful and not allow anyone else to use the machine. The other advantage of the old blocks is that you can cut more profiles around the other 3 sides of the plates. Forget about exact matching pairs but just aim at balancing the block enough to stop it vibrating or humming too much. I now have hundreds of profiles in my box for very little outlay - would cost thousands in router cutters which would be crap anyway as they don't match old joinery - not to mention the noise, dust and inconvenience. Many of them get modified slightly as new jobs come in, but HSS doesn't seem to need much sharpening. You could do it with safety cutters the same but you'd loose the fine adjustability I imagine, but a tilting arbor might solve the prob.

cheers

Jacob PS wear goggles - always start the machine with a large block of wood in front of the cutters in case you have forgotten to tighten something

- use push sticks or power feed - put all guards in place, etc etc

[Andy Hall]

OK. Now it makes sense. Do you do the initial "square on" work with two blanks clamped together, or simply cut a second roughly to match the first, perhaps a cut a bit further back to avoid high spots?

Hmm.... I'm interested as to how you would get into very fine, acute angled places. Do you have narrow wheels for this or is there another way?

Wheel as well? Do you use a jig of some sort to create a consistent angle?

Do you measure that using the knives mounted on the block and on the machine itself, or is there another way? I hadn't really thought about this aspect, but presumably this also depends on the block diameter?

I guess that anyway on older mouldings the cutters may well have been made by hand, so this is a good way.

OK, so they didn't have the peg arrangement of the new ones?

So there's some kind of a flat clamping arrangement?

I think that on some of the newer ones, one would have to put in some kind of piece to act as a limiter to make the clamp work, even if it wasn't cut to near the profile of the main cutter(s).

Presumably on the machine itself?

Are these generally relatively short runs anyway?

Definitely. This is one machine that I treat with a great deal of respect and always follow a check list twice for tightening things and checking free running.