As metioned earlier I'm putting in a DIY CH & hot/cold water system after getting quotes of 6k for just the CH!. So far I sized the rads. and got them fixed up. However I don't want to put the boiler in myself, so I'm still looking at maybe 2.5-3k for a Corgi to supply & fit (:-
I concur, we did this a few years ago at my dads house - we replumbed the whole heating system and fit a new boiler - when everything was plumbed and wired up we got a CORGI guy in to do connect the gas. He wasn't interested in looking at anything we had done - he just connected the gas up to the boiler and charged a fairly reasonable price for the hour or so it took him to do it
There would be no problem doing all the pipework first and getting a CORGI to just install the boiler. If you look hard enough, you'll even find a CORGI that lets you supply it, mount the thing to the wall, connect up the water pipes and just runs the gas and flue before commissioning and filling in all the paperwork.
Just make sure you have designed the controls correctly to begin with. They're not allowed to sign it off without boiler interlock, fully pumped circulation and the appropriate thermostatic controls.
One advantage of the heatbank in your situation is that you can build, test and even run the entire system before the boiler is installed. If you specify 6kW or 9kW of immersion heating, you might even be able to run rads off it during spring, depending on your house.
Christian.
Best run the gas pipe and connect to the boiler and run back to the meter with a cap on the end. He just connects up the meter end and commissions.
_________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 120,000 groups Unlimited download
Best go thermal store/heat bank. You can run the boiler flow & return pipes back to the boiler position and have full bore isolating valves at the store. Then you can commission the whole system, using an electric immersion. The store takes about 4 cans of inhibitor, so you don't want to drain this down as it is £40-50 a go.
If you can do the store and rads, you can do the boiler, some of them are easy to install. Lots of common sense and just follow the instructions. Run the gas pipe, soldered joints only, connect the pipe at the boiler end and leave the pipe ready at the meter for a corgi man to connect and commission the boiler.
_________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 120,000 groups Unlimited download
I've seens other boiler quotes in the ng and mine seems a little high for the area - maybe I'm panicking too much!. Maybe 'vanilla' Corgis will be cheaper than CH-Engineer Corgis for this?.
I'm glad others have had good DIY boiler experiences in the past, I'm just wondering if conditions are still the same in 2005. I'm a bit concerned about house sale & liability effects of 'installing' (-gas) my own boiler, though I did a lot of electrics myself last year. I thought doing the rad circuits might leave a clean, single-location job for the Corgi. Plus I'm snowed under with DIY stuff at the moment and didn't really want to do the radiators, let alone the boiler!.
If the modern Corgi isn't interested in much beyond the boiler then that helps.
The heatbank advance testing is an attraction. I said in the OP that the heatbank would be indirect with the radiator circuits off the store, well this wouldn't amount to much primary water - just the boiler circuit & store coil!. What I would really like is integrated boiler/store with indirect, heat exchanger (internal to store to minimise heat loss) connection to the radiators. This makes the most sense to me, boiler heats 180L store but rads are isolated from store/boiler, and I don't get 180L of water on top of the rad/pipe contents if I get a flood. For some reason though I haven't seen a heatbank that works this way, the only reason I can think of is the temperature drop by using the heat exchanger, then again if the boiler is connected directly then the nett effect would be the same a indirect to boiler / direct to radiators?.
Well at a push I could get my heatbank concept made up - if it's really a good idea.
Thanks all,
DIYSOS
If I were to do the gas-pipe connection myself, it would be my first ever soldiered joint(!), though at least it would be outdoors. As it happens the gas pipe run already exists (to within 2m) and serves a boiler to be removed.
I really don't want to get involved with the gas - surely the Corgi can do this short run + wouldn't I need to raise an expensive Building Notice too?. That said it is an option if all else fails (ie proves ridiculously expensive).
Thanks again,
DIYSOS
You connect the boiler, run the gas pipe back to the meter and a corgi connects and commissions. He signs it off. You are full in the clear.
The system has to have the interlock, etc.
Have the rads direct off the store, open vented. You can have the boiler direct off the store too. No problem. If you want someone else to do the boiler then maybe have the store heated via a large 100 kW indirect coil. Then the system boiler is connected to this coil which is pressurised and isolated from the stores water. Then no problem in connecting up the store.
The heat bank can come with all the pumps electrical connection blocks on it. You run a wire to the room stat, and power to the heat bank. You may require a permanent live top the boiler. The heat bank supplier can wire the J Box up for you if they know what sort of wiring the boiler takes, so just running a wire (may 4 core) to the boiler. To get around Part P, connect up the lot via a 3 pin plug. Have a heat bank with two stats to prevent boiler cycling.
Will the boiler and store be near each other?
_________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 120,000 groups Unlimited download
Leave it to the Corgi man then, if it is that close.
_________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 120,000 groups Unlimited download
The thermal store's base would be about 1m directly over the top of the gas boiler.
A basic concept of the heatbank option, which I come back to, was to isolate the 'professionally' installed boiler and heatbank primary system from my 'un-professional' DIY peripheral stuff. I saw this as providing a clear boundary for the installer, and me, to work to. Also later if things go wrong, say with the boiler, advantage is that there should be no reasonable perception thatt that my stuff (or rust/sludge therefrom) was to blame. If boiler, store and rads are all on the same circuit then this advantage is comprimised. Of course if the boiler installer ends up being me (hopefully unlikely) then that's a bit different...
If the boiler were to heat the store indirectly, via coil or exchanger, with radiators off the store, then there would be hardly any primary water circuit (boiler + 1m pipes + coil). Would this be a problem - would you need to check/replenish water like with sealed circuits?.
Agree with 2 stats, like you suggested a few days ago, and like the idea of getting a pre-wired heatbank (have already asked for quotes). And don't mention Part P round here OK? (:->).
Thanks again,
DIYSOS
Best have what I suggested, a primary heating coil, heated by the boiler leave a tee in the flow with a compression cap on it to act a filler for inhibitor for the short primary circuits.
A wall mounted "integrated", CH off it, square thermal store can be over the boiler.
Try:
_________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 120,000 groups Unlimited download
Aha, so like you said earlier, the store's coil connects to a 'system' boiler - complete with pressure gauge and expansion vessel. If not I assume the boiler would blow a gasket... anyway the short sealed primary circuit is managable - good!. BTW many thanks for the helpful list of URLs for cylinder manufacturers. But back to the OT...
A bit late picking up on this - sorry. First I'll need to find out what boiler interlock is!. As regards thermostaitc controls, would this just be Room 'Stat(s) in the case of the traditional system?. If Thermal Store then just the cylinder stats and/or Room 'Stat(s) as well?. Hopefully not the TRVs in either case? - that would be just what I wouldn't want, Corgi with an involvement in 'my' radiator circuit I just want them to put the boiler up and go away!. Do they actually need to see pumps etc working, or just know they're designed in - or am I asking too much (:->).
Thanks again
DIYSOS.
You are allowed to practice first you know.... ;-)
Darn it, thats one of my excuses for not doing my own gas work gone!. Hope the rest hold up (:->)
DIYSOS
It makes it easier in what you are doing. Ideally you would be better off with an open vented boiler connected directly to the store with out an intermediate coil.
Not at all. A direct heat bank is open vented, the store has its own F&E tank, any boiling over by the boiler goes to the store and up into the F&E tank.
In a heat banks case it is a cylinder stat that controls the boiler so it does not cycle. Best have two stats, top and bottom, so that boiler cycling is totally eliminated.
The CH circuit has a room stat that switches the pump, that pumps from the store. A time clock switches the CH off, which is the pump and boiler.
TRVs? On all rads? Have a variable speed Grundfoss Alpha on the CH, then no by-pass or room stat is needed. Just a timer to switch on and off the boiler and pump.
Also have a DHW clock/timer to switch off the boiler. The CH and DHW timer can be all in one simple unit, as for normal systems.
Once again, have a heat bank/thermal store with a primary coil that is heated by the boiler.
If you want to have a multi-point heat the store as an interim measure it will need its own temporary F&E tank and pump. The new system boiler eliminates these two.
Read
_________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 120,000 groups Unlimited download
Hi,
Thanks for the latest input, which I'll look at off-line. As we're getting a bit off-topic I probably won't pick up any of my 'system design' issues again in this thread.
Save to say with the heatbank option (still only an option), and based on what I know (:-
The only reason to have the CH circuit off a heat exchanger, an immersed coil, and pressurised is to have rads above the heat bank. If the heat banks F&E tank is above the highest rad then there is no need whatsoever. You are just adding the complexity of a pressure vessel, blow-off valve to outside, etc. A thermal store/heat bank creates a wonderful neutral point.
It is so the boiler does not cycle, when the hosue is up to temp. The cyl' stat, or better two stats, creates the interlock.
_________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 120,000 groups Unlimited download
Arrangement that turns the boiler off when heat is not actually required from it, instead of letting it keep itself up to the temperature set on its internal thermostat when there's no demand. In a conventional system this means that unless the space heating (room stat) or HW (cylinder stat) are in demand the boiler stays off.
HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.