Reliable and Flexible Corgi Plumber Wanted - Mid Herts

[DavidM]

I am planning on replacing my 30+ year old CH boiler with a new, conventional flue boiler (and yes, I know about the regs changes re condensing boilers, but I'm not about to have my whole house replumbed to accommodate one!).

I would like to find a registered Corgi plumber who will:

1. Visit before I remove the old boiler, check what I'm planning on doing and advise of any problems or better ways of doing things.

1. After I have installed the boiler and new controls, to reconnect the gas and do all the gas and flue safety checks etc, and check that the boiler is working ok.

2. Sign off the installation(?)

I'll pay the going hourly rate for all time spent, including reasonable travelling time.

Any offers or recommendations?

David

[Doctor Drivel]

Go for a proper heating engineer, not a plumber.

[Lobster]

My recommendation would be that you find a Corgi who will agree to do all you want BEFORE you embark on self-installing your boiler. My guess is you'll struggle to find one, big time.

I've been trying to find one to fit a boiler (to be supplied by me) to a new CH system installed by me and a non-CORGI plumber. Not a hope. Luckily I hadn't bought a boiler yet! I'm now looking for a Corgi who will *supply* and fit a boiler (again, to the new CH system) and even then am striking out. So far, I've found just one who's prepared to give me a quote (and God knows what that will be).

I was whinging about this to the plumber's merchant this afternoon and he says he's not surprised at all; says there's very little money in fitting just boilers, and all the red tape and certification needed these days makes it an unattractive job to take on (when they aren't exactly devoid of work). And, as he said, "plumbers are funny buggers..."

David

[Andrew Gabriel]

Wickes used to keep a list of CORGI's who were prepared to do this for the Halstead boilers they used to sell (and maybe still do, but I haven't looked recently). Might be worth trying to get hold of this list if it still exists (I think it was on their "Good Ideas" leaflet for the boilers).

[Peter Andrews]

Surely, unlike electricity, it is still legal to install and commission your own boiler - provided that you are competant, i.e. do it correctly.

Peter

[DavidM]

There seems to be an endless debate (see the plumbers section of the Screwfix -

discussion group). If you ask a plumber (or gas engineer) they will probably say it is illegal (but they would of course), others will say all you have to do is prove competance (eg get Corgi registered!!). A number of postings I have read there even suggest that soon, when you sell your house, you will have to show a certificate of conformance for all gas appliances, issued by a register engineer. Nanny State and all that grrrrrrrrr David

[Ed Sirett]

Take a look at the gas fitting FAQ. Email me - may be I can help. However the replacement boiler would have to be condensing and I doubt that installing one would cause you to have the whole house replumbed.

Even if you were able to claim exemption (from a condensing unit) you would still need to comply with the other Energy efficiency measures which would almost certainly mean a new HW cylinder and TRVs.

[Ed Sirett]

The gas fitting aspect of the work is permissible to DIY provided you are competent. However there are a number of other aspects which it is questionable to DIY.

Firstly: You would need to submit a building notice as you can't self certify that the installation complies with Part L & Part J. Secondly: Most boilers are in a restricted area as regard Prat P. and electrics. Thirdly: Many manufacturers could use the fact that the benchmark book was not signed off as an excuse to avoid delivering on the warranty. Fourthly: Documentation required to sell the house (this is the least problem I would guess).

A boiler I did earlier this year and which I submitted notification on has failed a random CORGI inspection:

1) The boiler not is supplied from a fused spur. 2) Filling loop left connected.

Nanny State Grrrr!

[Martyn Pollard]

I think there are a couple of possible issues. As someone has said, most corgi engineers are likely busy with full installations mon-fri,

9-5. If someone claims to be corgi but is doing it 'off the books' then its not a legal installation and you would not get a legit benchmark logbook. An engineer working full time for XYZ ltd is not allowed to claim to be Corgi registered in his own right. Boiler manufacturers could void the warranty in this case and I doubt Corgi would be too happy.

As for your request to keep a non-condensing boiler, there are some exceptions which allow for it, but they are rare. All replacement boilers have to be notified to building control and Corgi have a scheme to do this and we pay the =A32.50 for the privilege for each job. Once the boiler is on the system then they could do random inspections to check an engineers job. If the installer incorrectly used a non-condensing boiler then I presume they could be struck off the Corgi register.

I recently did a job where the owner needed a new boiler and a few new rads. I quoted for both, but I was happy for him to do the rads while I fitted the boiler. I think that's about the best compromise you will find. I sometimes get calls from people asking if I can "just commission the boiler". I would always decline as its not just a case of turning up, testing a few things, writing a few details down and saying job done.

Martyn

[Martyn Pollard]

I think there are a couple of possible issues. As someone has said, most corgi engineers are likely busy with full installations mon-fri,

9-5. If someone claims to be corgi but is doing it 'off the books' then its not a legal installation and you would not get a legit benchmark logbook. An engineer working full time for XYZ ltd is not allowed to claim to be Corgi registered in his own right. Boiler manufacturers could void the warranty in this case and I doubt Corgi would be too happy.

As for your request to keep a non-condensing boiler, there are some exceptions which allow for it, but they are rare. All replacement boilers have to be notified to building control and Corgi have a scheme to do this and we pay the =A32.50 for the privilege for each job. Once the boiler is on the system then they could do random inspections to check a job. If the installer incorrectly used a non-condensing boiler then I presume they could be struck off the Corgi register. They have never clarified this point.

I recently did a job where the owner needed a new boiler and a few new rads. I quoted for both, but I was happy for him to do the rads while I fitted the boiler. I think that's about the best compromise you will find. I sometimes get calls from people asking if I can "just commission the boiler". I would always decline as its not just a case of turning up, testing a few things, writing a few details down and saying job done.

Martyn

[Lobster]

Has this not changed earlier this year, with new regs? I thought when you bought a new boiler these days you now had to fill in a form and send it to Two Jags, and tell him which Corgi would be fitting it? Or something?

David

[news]

that is *totally* untrue. my brother in law works for a ltd company, a very large well known gas service firm with a multi million pound turnover, so is obviously corgi registered. he's also a director of his own limited company and advertises in Yell with his corgi number. all legal, run through solicitors, accountants, the tax man, vat man, etc.

it's the individual who passes the corgi (spit) benchmark, not the company and it's also the individual who has the right to use the accreditation.

[DavidM]

concern about doing any of it myself, including the gas safety checks, on a non condensing boiler. The main thing I'm missing is the ability to test for flue gases. My HW cylinder is fairly new (5 years) and I have some TRVs fitted and a few more will be no problem while I'm doing the job. I have already purchased the replacement conventional boiler, last year, but personal circumstances delayed the project I'm more concerned with getting a third party check of my work, from a competent engineer, mainly from a safety perspective, than anything else. David

[DJC]

I have just got the CORGI certificate 'Building Regulations Compliance' for my new boiler. This boldly states: " From January 2007, it will b required for all homeowners to be able to provide evidence of any gas and building work undertaken i n tier property in order to sell the property."

This in my opnon is misleading. From Jan 2007 'Buyers Packs' are to be introduced, but that as far as I understand will not prvent a sale if documents are not available. In a stick market it may be an excuse for a buyer to talk down the price but that that is notthe same as saying that the property cannot be sold.

[Martyn Pollard]

I should have said that if he worked for XYZ ltd with corgi number

123456 then he can't use 123456 to sign off jobs that are not done through XYZ company.

If hes registered with Corgi in his own company name under a different number 6789 then of course he can use that number to do gas work.

[Adrian]

Andrew Gabriel ( [e-mail]) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

If the people on that list are anything like the builders that Wickes recommended to next-door for building her Wickes conservatory, then I'd treat that list as useful pre-processing for the Yellow Pages.

Just go through the Yellow Pages and cross anybody off that appears on the Wickes list.

[Lobster]

Thanks for the suggestion. Went to Wickes this morning, so checked this out. They do indeed have a list of suggested CORGIS in the relevant 'Good Ideas' leaflet, but that was several years old, and none of the firms mentioned was nearer than about 50 miles from me. I asked the manager about it, and he said they had no other lists.

Wickes are still selling their Halstead boilers - both condensing and non-condensing varieties, and there's a big sign saying 'must be installed by a CORGI'. So by implication they must only be selling direct to CORGI fitters - yeah, right!

David

[John Rumm]

This is a bit of a red herring IMHO. If you bought the boiler from a dealer as a consumer, then it is down to them to honour the warranty - not the manufacturer. The fact that the manufacturers often take on the warranty responsibility on behalf of the retailers is more of an inducement to the dealers than anything else. They may argue the toss, but so long as you can demonstrate that the boiler was installed as per the instructions it seems they would have a hard job arguing the case.

[John Rumm]

Two things spring to mind: Choose a boiler where no setting up or testing of flue gasses is required (e.g. some of the Ideal wall hung boilers), or buy a gas analyser. The latter would probably cost less than getting a man in with one!

[Doctor Drivel]

Get real. Nanny state? If I was buying house I would want all the services to current safety standards. If below then they upgrade before the sale. It prevents flash cowboys from operating. Other countries do it.

One recent poster has asked fro advice on combi that doesn't actually work after buying a house. He was ripped off, it should have been checked out and operational.