I want to run a lead for a (1kw) wall panel heater.
Can I remove the plug and attach the power lead to the terminals inside an existing 13a socket and run the lead out of the side?
If so, should I connect the heater via a fused spur?
No.
Yes, you could connect it via a fused spur, This is not the same as your first suggestion.
tim .
Also note that you should not run your primary heating appliances from a ring circuit -- they should be on dedicated radial circuits. If it's an extra bit of supplementary heating, then running it from the ring circuit (via a fused connection unit as above) is OK, providing the ring circuit is not overloaded. (1kW is quite a small load, but if you are using multiple electric heaters on a ring circuit, you need to think carefully about this.)
On 10 Feb 2007 08:35:25 -0800 someone who may be "atticus" wrote this:-
I presume that you can. However, doing so would not be legal and should you manage to burn the building down you might get cold shouldered by various organisations.
That is how you should connect it. As has been said this is not the same thing as your earlier suggestion.
You need to clarify whether the socket is on a ring, spur or radial circuit and how heavily loaded this is already.
that outcome?
On 11 Feb 2007 11:56:36 -0800 someone who may be "atticus" wrote this:-
If you don't know the answer to that then you don't have the necessary competence to do the job.
Consider the capacity of the cord to carry a short circuit current and whether it is protected by the final circuit protective device. I note that you have not said what type of circuit the socket is on.
the protective device or load on the circuit.
On 12 Feb 2007 02:10:46 -0800, "atticus" mused:
By adding appliances to a circuit you are changing the load. I'd be inclined to get someone else to do the job, based on your replies to queries raised here.
On 12 Feb 2007 02:10:46 -0800 someone who may be "atticus" wrote this:-
Obviously; unless you are proposing some particular installation method, ambient temperature or so on.
The question is whether the cord is protected by the final circuit protective device. ISTM that you do not have the competence to work out whether it is or not. If you were aware of the standard circuit arrangements then you would probably have a clue about this.
Incorrect. You are proposing connecting a 1kW heater to the circuit.
You have not stated what sort of circuit the socket is on and appear ignorant of wiring practice. Get someone who knows what they are doing to do the work, before you regret it.
On 13 Feb 2007 05:13:09 -0800 someone who may be "atticus" wrote this:-
You give the impression of only wanting to hear "advice" that fits in with what you have already decided to do. You are not the first person who has given this impression and you probably won't be the last.
Get someone who knows what they are doing to do the work, before you regret it.
On 13 Feb 2007 05:13:09 -0800, "atticus" mused:
Might I suggest calling the fire brigade in advance of you doing this project? Might limit the fire damage to just a couple of rooms then rather than the whole house.
Just because the answer isn't what you want to hear doesn't mean it is incorrect.
In article , Lurch writes
I think that is rather unhelpful and very harsh, at least the OP did ask and in essence he isn't really doing anything more dangerous than what most DIY householders do who don't know any different.
Course some cannot but help by dispensing their superior knowledge in a really condescending fashion;(.................
On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 17:05:56 +0000, tony sayer mused:
As a percentage my useless posts are of the low volume, but they aren't so much unhelpful as you put it, more truthful.
I can't see any reason why the OP went off in a strop other than that he was told what he proposed was incorrect and he didn't sound up to the job. Doesn't bother me in the slightest what people do, when it all goes wrong it's me that gets paid to fix it so really perhaps I should encourage people t make a mess of things?
Anyway.......
On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 17:05:56 +0000 someone who may be tony sayer wrote this:-
And I think it is helpful. Probably not what the OP wanted to hear, but that does not make it unhelpful.
If the robustness of the responses stop the OP and lurkers making a mistake that may cause electric shock and fire then they will have been more than worth it.
While such mistakes don't automatically lead to electric shock and fire that has been the result of such mistakes on occasion.
Humans are designed with one mouth and two ears for a reason. Listening to answers is important.
Why not connect the fire up with bell wire? It will probably work, at least for a while. Most of the Wiring Regulations are there for a reason and sometimes that reason is the consequences of getting it wrong.
Being an electrical engineer, and reading all the comments of other people, the most important thing is where is the heater. Part P of the new regulations states that in a bathroon or kitchen ANY work must be carried out by a competant person. Other than that there is no reason why you cannot run a fused spur from your ring main (2.5mm cable must be used to the spur, and if the heater is 1Kw a 5 amp fuse must be in the spur. For more help go to easymaintain.com and there are loads of useful pages in the electrical section there best of luck Nicko
Nicko,
If you were an electrical installer (a competent one) and not an electrical engineer you would be more familiar with the legislation concerning your vocation.
You confuse a "prescribed competent person (an individual or a firm) authorised to self-certify compliance on completion of the work", as defined by law, with competence as demonstrated by complying with the regulations and best practice.
All installers, whether professional or DIY, have to be competent since the requirement that "fixed electrical installations in dwellings shall be suitably designed, installed, inspected and tested so as to provide reasonable protection against their being a source of a fire or a cause of injury to persons" is essentially met by complying with BS 7671:2001 which would certainly demonstrate competence. This covers the entire installation, not just kitchens and bathrooms.
However, even in "special locations" such as kitchens or bathrooms, any person can still carry out the work providing that the appropriate Building Control procedures are followed.
Your sweeping assertions do much to promulgate the sort of distorted understanding which has left many people believing that only CORGI registeredengineers can work on gas appliances (that old chestnut!)
... to the extent that work is notifiable. Even in kitchens and bathrooms, some electrical work is not notifiable (such as like-for-like replacement of a fitting)
Owain
On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 17:33:22 +0000 someone who may be Lurch wrote this:-
Indeed.
For the benefit of anyone lurking here is a guide to some of the things that should be considered. It will be my last posting in this thread, unless someone can progress the discussion of the engineering further.
1) what sort of circuit is the socket on? Lighting and immersion heater are some of the answers some may not think of.2) is it possible/permissible and/or desirable to connect the heater to this circuit?
3) if the answer to 1) is a ring, then is the socket on the ring or a spur?4) How is a ring conclusion to be checked? Bear in mind that just because a socket has two or three cables at the back does not mean it is on a ring. As well as a bodger, the socket could have been wired up correctly in the days when it was permissible to have two single sockets on a spur.
5) is the existing socket wired correctly? I once found two double socket outlets that had been wired radially in 1.5mm2 cable from the back of a (correctly wired) double socket spured from a ring.6) what wiring system is used for the existing socket and how is it to be extended to the switched fused connection unit for the fire?
7) if the socket is on a ring should the ring be extended to the switched fused connection unit, or should the unit be spured off?8) if there is to be a spur, does this mean that there will be too many spurs on the ring?
9) could the socket be replaced by a switched fused connection unit? A far easier task and if the socket is not used much worth considering.10) Are there any other options, such as a fused connection unit at the socket and double pole switch at the heater?
11) Is it better to add a single box, or fit a box that will take a single socket and switched fused connection unit?In article , David Hansen writes
There we are!, you can do it when you want too;) A Far more helpful post:)
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