Compression fitting - how to make good a bodge?

[davidrobinson]

I replaced the gate valves on the 22mm cold and HWC feeds this weekend. It seemed a sensible thing to do, as the pipes are being built into a wardrobe, and both valves had ceased.

When I got the old compression fittings and olives off (removing the old olives was probably a mistake) the pipes were in quite poor condition.

I tried get them back to shape and to smooth them. Sensing the new joint wasn't going to work well, applied a few turns of PTFE - both under the new olive, and over it.

Well, unsurprisingly, two of the four joints leaked. One of these was cured by an extra 1/8th turn (but for how long?), but the other is still slightly damped when touched.

It can't stay like this, because it's running down the back of a wardrobe. Unfortunately, the pipe is running very close into the back _corner_ of the wardrobe, and I can't see a way of cutting it back to make a clean joint.

Suggestions?

Cheers, David.

[G.W. Walker]

I spent the weekend sealing leaks in compression fittings following some good advice from others here, so...

dismantle the joints. Check that the olives are tight on the pipe. Get rid of the PTFE from around the olive. Try a smear of a non-setting jointing component like Fernox LX, and re-assemble. Maybe add a turn of PTFE to the threads, which does nothing to seal the joint, but does act as a dry lubricant and might help you tighten the joint more easily.

Good luck!

G.

[Wingedcat]

I can't envisage a way of "bodging" what is essentially a knackered pipe. So, is there any way that instead of cutting it back, you could extend it forwards, by soldering on a new length of 22mm using a straight coupler and then attaching a gate valve to that?

Without seeing the exact layout with the wardrobe and so on, it's a bit difficult to make suggestions!

(Good Lord - your pipes must be completely deformed if you can get PTFE tape *under* the olive! No wonder you can't get a good seal!)

Luke

[davidrobinson]

[snip]

The idea of doing my first soldered joint in the back of a wardrobe isn't filling me with joy!

_____ |o | |

That's looking from above, at the corner of a wardrobe with a pipe running down it. It disappears into the roof.

Reading around, I wonder if this is part of the problem. I probably wrecked the pipes getting the old olives off (using adjustable spanner and hammer - rather than hack saw and screw driver!), but the new olives, though not _very_ lose, were quite lose - it took only a little care to get them over a turn of PTFE tape around the pipes without ripping the tape. Could it be imperial pipe? House was built in the

1950s, some of the pipes look younger than others.

Cheers, David.

[davidrobinson]

[snip]

Yes, I read your thread (and others view google groups search)

Thanks. It sounds like losing the PTFE, getting the pipes as clean flat and shiny as I can, and adding a little Boss White or Fernox LX(S?) (because I know the joints are trouble from the start) sounds like a plan.

I was using Vaseline / petroleum jelly on the threads anyway. I've done them up too tight now, but that wasn't the original reason for the leaks.

Cheers, David.

[Wingedcat]

It could well be David. You can get adaptor olives from a plumber's merchant allowing you to use imperial pipes with metric fittings. This might just about do the job for you. If this is the case then your imperial pipe will be 3/4 inch so just ask for the 3/4 inch > 22mm converter olives at the merchant's. They should only be a few pence so worth a try!

(The imperial sizes are internal diameter so don't be surprised that measuring the outer diameter of your pipes doesn't give you the 19.08mm you might expect!)

I wouldn't fancy my first soldered joint at the back of wardrobe either to be honest. It depends on how much room you've got to work with. However, I've done a few in close proximity to flammable materials by surrounding the area in damp offcuts of plywood and damp rags. Solder ring fittings would be easier than end feed in this case but hopefully it won't come down to this!

Good luck Luke

[Tournifreak]

You need one of these to cut the pipes. 15mm and 22mm versions are available.

the olives brass or copper? I've had trouble tightening brass olives tight enough. Copper ones seem much easier to get right - they seem to "give" a bit more as its a softer material.

It's quite possible that the pipes are imperial. 15mm and 1/2" are nigh on identical though - 15mm compression fitting should be fine with either. 22mm and 3/4" are quite different though - you'll need a special olive - take a trip to your local plumbers merchant. I don't think the sheds do them. From your description, this sounds quite likely. As someone else said, you shouldn't be able to get much (any!) PTFE tape UNDER the olive.

Alternatively, you could use a push-fit pipe repair if by cutting the pipe again its too short:

15mm and 1/2" are OK. If it's 3/4" go and talk to your local PM.

Good luck!

Jon.

[zymurgy]

Good grief !

Top tip, when you have very little pipe to play with, take care when removing the old olives, and only a *very gentle* clean with wire wool, to avoid removing too much metal.

As you say, careful application of hacksaw and screwdriver to break the old olive apart would have been good in this case !

But, if the old olive looks to be in good order i'd be tempted to reuse on the new fitting

Others have given the best tips already. Use a 3/4" olive, or a copper one that is a little more forgiving.

P.

[davidrobinson]

Also, it requires you to add a ratchet handle to use the thing (I downloaded the instructions) - I don't have room to rotate the handle around the pipe.

I think this means cutting the pipe remains the biggest problem.

Yes, they were copper. I'll stock up on some brass ones.

I think I'll buy a few of both.

to cut the pipe though!

I've googled and found one a few minutes away.

Thanks to you and everyone else for the advice.

My problem now is that, to do the job properly, I'm going to have to cut the pipe in a tight corner.

Cheers, David.

[Cicero]

============================= You can see the 22mm version of the pipe cutter by clicking on 'Plumbing tools / Hand tools' lower down the page to which the above link applies.

This tool does not need a ratchet handle (although one may be available) - it simply rotates around the pipe to be cut. It needs only about 16mm clearance around the pipe and unless you have exceptionally weak fingers it's quick and easy to use.

Since you're obviously struggling it might be worth tracing the pipe(s) into the ceiling void if possible and try to install new sections of pipe with their joints in a more accessible position.

Cic.

[Cicero]

============================= You can see the 22mm version of the pipe cutter by clicking on 'Plumbing tools / Hand tools' lower down the page to which the above link applies.

This tool does not need a ratchet handle (although one may be available) - it simply rotates around the pipe to be cut. It needs only about 16mm clearance around the pipe and unless you have exceptionally weak fingers it's quick and easy to use.

Since you're obviously struggling it might be worth tracing the pipe(s) into the ceiling void if possible and try to install new sections of pipe with their joints in a more accessible position.

Cic.

[Mungo]

A cheap hot-air gun can ramp the temperature up enough that you can solder with it!

Mungo

[freddyuk]

Borrow a Dremel and cut off the pipe square in the corner. I woul never advise buying a Dremel but they have very limited use and this i one of those situations.Clean the pipe up with a small round file an wire wool. Then fit a straight connector and solder on new length o pipe(using a solder mat to protect the wardrobe) or use a compressio connector. Job done. Oh, then bin the dremel or give it back

-- freddyuk

[zymurgy]

LOL, that's not what the dremel site says.

It's quite versatile I find for some jobs. I have a Ryobi rechargeable 'rotary tool' but sometimes mains powered is always better for long or frequent cutting.

I use mine lots. Maybe I have above average need of grinding, drilling, milling, sanding, cutting and polishing to do ..

P.

[John Rumm]

Can you not cut it in the room below (or in the loft above) etc to save titting about in the wardrobe?

[davidrobinson]

[snip]

They're not very accessible either above or below!

Thank you to everyone for your advice. Realising that I'd done a bad job to start with, and that there was nothing for it but to cut the pipe and get suitable copper 3/4" compatible olives to make good, there was no harm in trying to tighten the leaking joint even more.

Result: it's stopped leaking. Nothing in two days, despite pulling and waggling the pipe.

I think I'll keep my fingers crossed for now. I'll do the job properly next time though (kitchen next!), so thank you for all the information.

Cheers, David.