combi versus conventional boilers

You just made that up.

..which is not very well.

There is NO difference between a condensing boiler and non-condensing boiler. A condenser has a larger heat exchanger and a drain. The rest is about the same.

A good modern condensing boiler doesn't even need cleaning as the condensate washes down the heat exchanger. Threre is no reason not to have burner monitoring sensors to tell the customer when the burner is running out of tune. In other words, service on demand not by time as some cars are these days. The reliability and lowered running costs can be promoted by condensing boilers.

Atmos. Then Viessmann, ECO-hometec, Quantum, Atag, Buderus, ACV. "Some" Vaillants & W-Boschs.

Buy a cheapie the don't complain if it conks out a lot. Buy a cheapie and have a cowboy fit it to a dirty system and then you will have many conking!!!

Reply to
Doctor Drivel
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What do you expect when he built his own house with no insulation.

Reply to
Doctor Drivel

Sounds good. Of course some also have heating provided centrally via underfloor pipes (which may also be good, so long as you don't get a leak..)

We have a 'communal' water meter which I have to say I really dislike as nobody appears to give a toss about how much water they use. Tenants are no doubt worse than owner-occupiers as they don't even see the service charges. I suppose the one good thing might be landlords can offset water use against tax and charge a higher rent to include water useage, and also there is less adminstration (always a good thing). It is practically impossible to switch to individual meters without 100% agreement.

Reply to
whitely525

Sounds good. Of course some also have heating provided centrally via underfloor pipes (which may also be good, so long as you don't get a leak..)

We have a 'communal' water meter which I have to say I really dislike as nobody appears to give a toss about how much water they use. Tenants are no doubt worse than owner-occupiers as they don't even see the service charges. I suppose the one good thing might be landlords can offset water use against tax and charge a higher rent to include water useage, and also there is less adminstration (always a good thing). It is practically impossible to switch to individual meters without 100% agreement.

Reply to
Doctor Drivel

Reply to
whitely525

This is not an exercise in trying to catch you out. Yes there is an Electronic controller involved with ones of these units. Although I don't think they absolutely have to be used like that. I can now picture what you have.

It depends on the target rental market.

If you are looking at the lowest segment then indeed the /Landlord/ is better off without gas; and the tenants have to live with whatever's there.

If you looking at mid and up market letting then you have just put yourself at the bottom of the class. The tenants will simply look for somewhere better. At best you'll simply have a succession of temporary lettings whilst the tenants find somewhere 'more suited to their needs'.

Reply to
Ed Sirett

So far I'm with you. Don't be silly, I

That's where I disagree. Unless it's n Pott. Envoy or Baxi Barcelona you'd probably still be fine. Although the choice of condensing boiler 12 years ago was quite limited.

They were a forward looking bunch for those days. However the customer's heating system is not for research purposes.

Reply to
Ed Sirett

What other improvements were made at the same time? TRVs? Independent controls?

My guess is that 20% is what you would get from a condensing unit & TRVs.

Reply to
Ed Sirett

That's the big question. The only suggetsion I ave (which is in the FAQ) is that you get what you pay for. The only thing not worth paying for is a company that has a 'name' because they /used to/ make good boilers.

Like washing machines, by the time the situation is known the model has been superseded. For instant many people know I'm quite comfortably with Vaillants but there were specific models to avoid.

The VCW 8 series (Turbomax not Plus) were in truth no better than many mid range models. Likewise early T/max plus units suffered from diverter valve problems and later units from a batch of dodgy APS units.

It's also difficult to know even from personal experience as the sample size for a particular model can be quite small. The only Ideal Icos (or Isar) condensing combi I've fitted has been OK. But their reputation is dire.

Reply to
Ed Sirett

None.

The system had been progressively updated throughout its life - although to be fair it was pretty well state of the art when installed, being fully pumped (flow share) with fast recovery cylinder. I added thermostatic valves everywhere apart from in the living area where the programmable stat lives. And added a boiler over-run circuit. Nothing else.

Be interesting to see over a decently long period.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

IANAL but I thought it was illegal to rent out a flat that didn't have a safe fixed heating installation. Individual electric panel heaters allowable, but not relying on portable appliances.

Economically disadvantaged tenants may be more susceptible to fuel poverty and so be more reluctant to take on a property with an expensive to run heating system.

Owain

Reply to
Owain

The message from Ed Sirett contains these words:

I don't know how closely the sedbuk figures mirror real life but on the basis of their ratings I would have been disappointed at only 20% gas saving with no improvements other than boiler swop. All the old Kingfishers had a rating of 65% while the Vitodens are all in the range

90.1 - 90.5%. That is a difference of 25+ points which should have translated into a gas saving of 28% ignoring any gas used for cooking.
Reply to
Roger

Many top-end flats do not (and cannot) have gas. There are still incidents explosions (rare, but it does happen). The larger the block, the less likely gas will be an option. So many make do with electric heating. It is not as bad as you may think if they are well insulated and small; also you might only have 1 cold wall if you are in a larger block and possibly only a shower with no bath. And a gas boiler is no good if it breaks down during winter and the landlord is hard to find. I know some have electric immersion back-up but that just appears to complicate things even further.

ide quoted text -

Reply to
whitely525

My brother changed from a similar boiler to the Kingfisher - ie RS with cast iron heat exchanger - to a condensing unit with no other changes and

20% was pretty well his figure. I'm not sure about how Sebuk calculate efficiency, but things like where an older boiler was sited will make a big difference to the actual fuel usage - ie if in an outhouse the wasted heat from the casing etc will indeed be wasted. If situated within the house it will add to the heat that house. That they make no allowance for this makes me suspect their figures are 'worst case'.
Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

The larger up market blocks often have Central Heating (in the original and exact meaning of the term).

Reply to
Ed Sirett

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