Cherry Picker

[Jimk]

Money...

[John]

One hell of a cherry picker used in that chimney rescue attempts in Cumbria.

Would it have helped at Grenfell?

[NY]

Yes it was. 260 feet high (probably a bit more since they are always operated with a least a *bit* of a bend at the elbow joint.

So sad that it didn't get there in time to save the man. I wonder why he went up the tower - a prank, or an attempt to unfurl a protest banner?

If Fred Dibnah had still been with us, I bet he'd have shinned up the ladder and rescued the guy, with no regard to health and safety or whether it would lead to "half a day out with the undertaker".

I suppose it would have got some people out, though I imagine it takes quite a while to lower and raise, so there may have been a long delay between rescuing one load of people and the next.

Good that the Grenfell enquiry may lead to a change in the "in case of fire, stay put" advice to people in tower blocks.

[Another John]

The local news (Look North, NE&Cumbria) talked about issues with mental health.

J.

[Chris J Dixon]

It would have had the capacity.

Interesting to hear a view from the access industry:

"If only the emergency services had contacted either a crane or aerial lift rental company as soon as they were notified of the incident and the height, there is a good chance that this man would be recovering this evening rather than lying in a mortuary.

This is yet another example of some fire and rescue services that have not kept in touch with the technology and developments made in the crane and truck mounted aerial lift markets, the alternatives and who operates the equipment. Shortly after the Grenfell Tower tragedy in London the head of the fire service claimed that larger truck mounted lifts that could travel within city limits had not been available in the past.

Then in the incident today they appear to have waited for several hours before looking for an aerial work platform or crane, and then tried to find one by making a public appeal over the radio.

Why is that in many other countries, such as Germany, the fire service not only operates its own cranes, but also has a call on truck mounted lifts up to a 103 metres or more? There was a time when every fire department in the UK subscribed to a copy of Cranes & Access magazine in order to keep abreast of developments and in touch with rental companies offering this type of equipment which is required for incidents such as this and for road accident recoveries involving heavy trucks. "

Chris

[Bill Wright]

Very interesting post.

Bill

[bert]

They initially tried a helicopter but the down draught was too severe.

[spuorgelgoog]

And Grenfell had only one stair which probably wasn't sized for full simultaneous evacuation. People coming down would also have obstructed firefighters going up.

I think there was a Fire Service shortcoming in passing information from the scene back to the 999 call handlers, but 999 call handlers aren't a substitute for a proper whole-building public-address voice alarm system.

Owain

[Robert]

This article gives some info on the reasons for the Fire Brigade Actions.

[charles]

and it came from Glasgow, so probably wouldn't have got to West London in time.

[charles]

AKA "budget cuts".

[dennis]

Rule 1: if a building is on fire get out if you can.

Rule 2: if a building is on fire get out anyway.

Sod leaving space for the firemen to get up and save the building.

[Dave Liquorice]

+1

I don't think local Fire and Rescue services do building fire safety inspections any longer it's been "out sourced".

ISTR in the weeks after Grenfell it emerged that the cladding actually fitted, rather than that originally specified, was not fire rated to be used above a few stories high. Any reappraisal of the affects the change of cladding may have had was only a paper exercise. Using data gathered from tests for the intended (low height) use of the cladding rather than what actually happens when you wrap a tower block in it.

advice

I'm inclined to agree but that's my decision. Given the choice between a smoke logged stairwell and a (supposedly) 60 minute fire safe flat I'm not sure when I'd change to "f*ck this I'm outta here". Bearing in mind from inside the building you can't see that it's going up like roman candle.

Or persons trapped by the smoke/fire...

[Jim White]

Which is why London Freemasons are raising 2.5 million pounds for two extended height aerial vehicles. Currently being built in Germany.

'll leave the ethics of relying on charity to fund essential equipment for someone else to comment on.

Jim

[Jethro_uk]

Did I learn that wheelchair users were also housed above ground level ?

[Jethro_uk]

Could they not have flown the helicopter higher, and trailed the rope to be moved into position by people on the ground, and then the rescue worker goes down that ?

(This is an armchair suggestion - I have no intimate knowledge of helicopter downdraughts).

[Andy Burns]

I don't know, but ... I could see a possible thought process that if everyone is meant to stay put, it doesn't matter if you don't use the lift on foot, or don't use it in a wheelchair, then the emergency services can evacuate you via the stairs if it comes to it ...

[Harry Bloomfield, Esq.]

Jethro_uk has brought this to us :

Rescuers could not initially get to him from the ground up, because the top section ladder was adrift from the chimney. It doesn't explain why rescuers could not have been lowered down to the chimney top, from the helicopter.

[Chris J Dixon]

From that same article:

"In recent years a special free subscription was made available for the emergency services as a gesture of goodwill for those facing cutbacks. And yet a number of regional fire services stopped their subscriptions, stating that ?it was not required?. Clearly it is! It is also surprising that more fire services are not members of IPAF, after all they are working at height on a regular basis and could have called on their expertise today."

Chris

[michael adams]

They reason they gave is the downdraft caused by the helicopter blowing the chap off of the chimney. I looked this up on the net with little success but climbing and other fall arrest ropes capable of taking the weight of a man go to 100's of metres and I very much doubt ( without any concrete evidence ) that a helicopter hovering would cause appreciable down draft on the top of a chimney 100 or more metres below. 10 metres or less, yes, obviously. The rescuer could be winched down with an easily fitted rescue harness attached to a separate rope.

michael adams

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