Yes, ours here is a Russell, possibly exactly the same one (the kettle portion can be lifted off the base, rather than having to uplug the power cable to take it somewhere). It's lasted a couple of years, but recently has started failing to always switch off. Previously we had a stove-top metal whistling kettle, and that took forever to boil (then it sprung a leak around the base seam one day)
I've become an expert at boiling just the right amount of water for what I'm doing :-) cheers
Jules
On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 13:54:22 +0000 someone who may be Tim Streater wrote this:-
Four different sorts of socket in a house, as opposed to one type in a UK/ROI house or two types on the mainland.
The two types is a generalisation. In places it was at one time the standard to fit earthed sockets in kitchens, bath and utility rooms, and unearthed sockets in other rooms, but these days earthed sockets are fitted everywhere for new installations. Other places have only had one sort of socket for some time. Only the Italians have managed to come up with a great variety of sockets [1], two standard sockets (which are also available combined) and what is a Schuko with connections for one or more other plugs . I would like one of the latter for my collection.
[1] the Danes do have their computer socket, though not something for houses. This does fox people with a "universal" travel adaptor, or one for the "whole of Europe". In December I felt quite smug taking out a lead which would fit into one:-)
No fireproofing in the framework wood itself AFAIK - it's just plain ol' yellow pine. I think the wooden siding (cladding) often use might have some sort of retardant in it, though. Sheetrock (plasterboard) comes in various grades, some of which is notionally 'fireproof' and I think some areas mandate it for things like kitchens .
I think part of the problem might be the tendency to have forced-air heating rather than CH; blowing air around gets dust/dirt/debris into all sorts of nooks and crannies*, and quite a few times I've taken US outlet covers off and found lots of crud within the box. If wires work loose and start arcing, it wouldn't take much to ignite that debris...
cheers
Jules
No, actually this was in 1984 and the kettle didn't lift off the base (which approach is much better). I'm not sure when those came in.
Hi again Jules. Number of interesting points raised. Eh?
Yes 115 volts does mean twice the current for a given wattage. But for only a few items does that seem significant and it does limit North American plug-in items to around 1100 to 1200 watts or 10 amps per item plugged into a 15 amp outlet on a 20 amp circuit breakered circuit!
And agree if/when there is an HR joint/connection a greater chance of it heating up. But most loads are just a few amps; desk, end table lamp =3D say, 100 watts =3D 1amp. Stereo/Radio or TV maybe 150 watts, M.Wave prob one of the heaviest. Not as common now are electric fry- pan etc. maybe 750 watts etc. I think our cheap toaster (a bit of a family joke cos it cost $9.00 [about six quid new!] and occasionally, well quite often actually, won't latch down first time, is IIRC 750 watts. But it certainly behoves one to use good quality plugs and sockets. And maintain them.
Removing broken off screw in type lamps; with power off; a potato will often catch any jagged edges and enable 'the remains' to be screwed out. Throw away both the spud and the bulb remains! Cheap incandescent here can be bought (4 packs of either, 40, 60 or 100 watt) for around
25 cents per lamp. On one occasion found an even cheaper source and seized a couple of four packs; the glass bulb of the second lamp I used came off in my hand! So we had a good laugh about 'cheap bulbs' and threw away some 18 or 20 cents worth! Incandescents are not, like CFLs and fluorescents classed as 'Hazardous waste'!Those little brass screws rarely appear on end items here. Occasionally encounter them on say a terminal strip; similar I guess to 'chocolate blocks'? Normally on outlets etc. here, there are substantial (And I'll have to use old terminology here, with screws larger than 4 BA, maybe 2 BA size) and rather than just pinching the end of the wire into an insert hole in a brass fitting the wire is either wrapped around under screw (clockwise of course) or is under a small metal plate that flattens down onto the wire as the screw is tightened; these latter are the ones I prefer, giving a lot of contact area. Always worried those 'little brass screws' can cut off individual strands, particularly where stranded wire is in use. And if you tin the end of the wire to keep the strands together there seems to be some danger of the strands cracking off individually at the 'back end' of the tinning?
Speaking of chocolate blocks, not used here. But wire nuts are used extensively, in regular first time wiring and also for repairs. Open up any fluorescent fixture new or with the ballast replaced and the numerous wires will be connected with various sizes of wire nuts, sometime called 'Marrets'. Inside the back of a cooking stove also, covered in by the metal back panel wire nuts are quite common and despite some temperature rise have never seen a problem.
My comment about 13 amp plugs is that seems to be an awful amount of power; 13 x 230 =3D 3000 watts. And it'll prob. take a short overload of say 4000 to 5000 watts to blow that fuse. That can be alot of heat! And if it's supposed to be a 2 amp appliance plug, say a 300 watt computer and somebody has stuck a 13 amp plug on it ................... well the whole thing seems to be rather pointless about having fuses in the plugs at all? But have very little experience and what little was in the Middle East. There having seen the various abominations of use, such as Schuko and other European and AFIK un-fused 230 volt plugs, with adapters, or even 'forced' into UK style 3 prong outlets! (Round pins into flat sockets; ouch!) Or tripping those 'shutters' by some means! A graphite cored pencil maybe?
Although I'm sure no correct Britisher would do that of course! Having say a German or French electric tool they would of course install a proper 13 amp UK style 3 prong plug. Nein?
One thing that is ingenious is those UK construction site isolation transformers with a centre tapped to earth/ground 115/120 volt secondary. Allowing the use of cheaper 115 volt tools with a maximum (RMS) voltage to earth of around 55 to 60 volts. Clever! Wonder what kind of plugs they use on those?
BTW; we still have 230 volt Wolf drill operated by a not very portable
115 to 230 volt step-up transformer which has helped build an maintain our two homes. Yes both are 'stick built' well insulated and this second one, all electric. That UK drill, bought in 1953 is still in use!
This sort
With the North American pin and sleeve connectors since only keying in the connector shell is used, and since the keys can be damaged in industrial use, it is possible to mis-match worn connectors. This cannot occur in the IEC 60309 series.
I don't think cheaper US tools was a reason for adopting 55-0-55 on construction sites - the safety of the lower voltage in damp locations and the resilience of lower voltage filament bulbs in site lighting was probably more relevant.
Owain
I think my toaster is 2.2kW - makes for faster toast I guess!
Yup, probably electroplated brass or similar these days...
The terminals on better quality sockets etc tend to be more manly affairs with rectangular holes, and a mechanism that while tightened by screw, does not rely on the screw itself to pinch the wires, but instead to close a cage or bar that grips them.
We don't usually allow tinning of stranded wires that are to be used in screw terminals since the solder can creep and lose the clamping pressure over time.
For permanent joints that are not going to be accessible in the future, then crimping or soldering or welding are the allowed methods.
e.g.:
Indeed, although that does facilitate a number of appliances that would be difficult to get the same power from otherwise.
Typically kettles, and toasters may be up to 3kW. As would the heaters is many washing machines, and dishwashers. These tend to be cold fill these days and also low water content - so on the fly heating of the water is preferable to trying to draw hot water which in many cases would just end up emptying the cold standing water out of the pipe.
Many hand held power tools will go up to 2kW or over - particularly useful for things like 1/2" routers.
The plug is the same in either case, just the fuse that would be different.
Not really. Remember that we plug them into circuits that can supply
7.5kW sustained and even more for short durations (handy for kitchen circuits with lots of "big" appliances).That means that you can't rely on the circuit protective device to protect the appliance cable in the event of a fault (i.e. short circuit on the end of the flex). A "normal" 32A breaker will take a fault current of 160A or more to open "instantly" (i.e. under 0.1 secs). Even if your fault causes a current in excess of this, without the fuse there is still the possibility that the let through energy between the fault occurring, and the breaker opening would be enough to damage a thin appliance flex.
The appliances also ought to have their own overload protection if there is any possibility that they could cause an overload. (although many appliances would not have a failure mode that would permit an overload to occur)
Hmm, them smaller more bendy shaver style 2 pin plugs can be forced into a 3 pin socket...
(I have even seen someone powering an electric drill with no plug, a bare flex and a pair of screwdrivers!)
You can actually get special conversion plugs now that wrap round some of the continental plugs, and turn them into 3 pin ones.
Alas the 110V versions of the tools are no cheaper over here - in fact sometimes you pay a premium since they sell in lower volumes. Although I suppose one could import US tools that may be cheaper. Now that RCDs (GFCIs) are common on building sites, the safety issue is less significant that it once was. (although the tools are still less desirable to jo public, so may go walkies less often!)
They alas don't always make em like they used to! (wolf still exists in name only here, but just as a brand name on fairly basic imported tools.
The message from terry contains these words:
Oh dear! The ubiquitous Brillo bad so bleoved throughout North America!
These pretty much went ~40 years ago here. They can't generate the pressure to make a gas-tight connection (contact area too large for the force which can be applied), which is key to a connection which has a long life. Also, they have a common assembly failure mode of the conductor being pushed out as it's tightened, so installers tended to shy away from making them very tight. Also take longer to make the connection than modern terminals.
The design aim was up to 3kW per outlet. In much of Europe, the design aim was 3.5kW per outlet (220V @ 16A).
Actually, it's up to the appliance to include such protection, if it needs it for safety. In Europe, all appliances now have to remain safe with supply circuits protected at up to 16A, as is the case in several other EU countries, so it should be fine to use a 13A fuse in all appliances you buy today. This is not necessarily true of appliances bought before the Common Market, where you may need smaller fuses due to appliance lead lengths. Having said that, I do try to fit a fuse better matching the appliance load.
A couple of weeks ago, my parents found it was raining in the kitchen after the temporary roof covering had blown off during some building works. Unfortunately, water had run into a rather nice digital radio, which went bang as Mum lifted it up out of the puddle. Damage turned out to be quite small, possibly due to it having a 1A fuse in the plug, and I've mended it. A 13A fuse would have allowed a more powerful arc to establish before blowing, and doing more damage, although the lead would have carried that OK for the time taken to blow.
It's also handy that the fuse is associated with the faulty appliance. In other countries, when a fuse goes, you don't necessarily know which appliance caused it. So you see people trying all the appliances on another circuit until that one goes bang, or replacing the fuse to see if it happens again with a different selection of appliances connected. All seems quite silly to us.
That was one of the compromises when the common EU mains plug was abandoned.
EU stopped us insisting on 110V construction site supplies. They wanted the 110V supply banned, but a compromise allows us to continue using it, providing 230V is also be made available for workers with 230V tools (which is what workers from elsewhere in the EU are most likely to have).
The message from Pete Verdon contains these words:
It's also possible that the OP doesn't realise there's a choice of depths of box readily avaiable. A 25mm box gets crowded a whole lot faster than a 35mm or 45mm.
OP probably doesn't realise that most UK plugs are now moulded on. Point with regard to lamp fittings is reasonable -- large flat-headed terminal screws are common in North America.
Nor do I understand what this has to do with small brass screws. I make no secret of the fact that in my opinion the worst feature of UK installations is the B22d bayonet cap lampholders -- not because the design is flawed, but because the quality of those generally sold is deplorable -- even worse than the typical NEMA 5 plugs and sockets generally sold in North America. Properly-made brass-and-porcelain B22d lampholders are just fine. However, I learn to my surprise that Ba15d (SBC) bulbs are readily available in North America and are used for a wide variety of purposes, even if not for domestic lighting.
The OP clearly isn't aware that all appliances for domestic use are sold with a plug attached and these are most commonly moulded on. With those designs the plug does not open up but there is a panel in the base holding a fuse carrier which can be easily prised out with a small screwdriveer. Most such panels have an opening through which the fuse can be clearly seen and identified. If the fuse has been correctly isnerted the rating will be visible as 13A or 3A, but even if it has not been so inserted it will be obvious from the colour of the printing
-- brown for 13A, red for 3A -- and these are nowadays the only preferred sizes which means that small appliances up to 750 watt get at
3A fuse, others get a 13A fuse. With many appliances it's even marked on the moulded-on plug.True. Though what beats me is that most Noth American stoves have a NEMA 5-15 outlet on the stove itself. I'm afraid I'd be sore tempted to change it to a NEMA 6-15 (since there's 240volts available at the stove anyway) and run a totally non-approved imported kettle albeit preferably with a double-pole switch.
One of the things that wears aout North American sockets badly, of course, is that they're unswitched and for some appliances switching off is accomplished by pulling the plug out of the socket.
The message from John Rumm contains these words:
Yes, I've done that, but it's not really a problem to remove the remains of the lamp base once it's safely isolated.
I have a lifetime's supply of 3A, 5A and 13A BS1362 fuses -- the entire stock of a Woolworths branch as the result of a fortunate purchase when Woolworths collapsed in the UK.
One of the pains of living in North America and one of the great advantages of living in the UK is that we have 3kW kettles. I suppose one could always use a Zip boiler or similar, but most North Americans have never come across a decent kettle anyway and don't miss it.
Or slip in a NEMA 6 240v socket where required, when there's a feed from both legs of the supply.
On Sun, 7 Feb 2010 11:39:55 -0800 (PST) someone who may be terry wrote this:-
It would depend on circumstances. In most circumstances I would dig out my short lead which has a UK plug on one end and a German socket on the other end.
As it happens the last time I used it was on a trip to the mainland. Rather than take two computer leads, with UK and French/German plugs on them, it was easier to take the latter and the short lead, so that I could use the laptop while in the UK. I have arranged things so that all batteries can be charged from the latter, so don't have a mass of mains chargers to lug around.
These days, something like .
One might still find other types of sockets on some older installations, matches can be useful to plug tools into these when nobody is looking.
The message
from terry contains these words:
Unswitched sockets exist, but are normally fitted only where it is very undesirable that the applicance be switched off.
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember terry saying something like:
Or using a matchstick to open the shutter and push the L and N wires into the 'oles, removing the match and let the shutter down to trap the wires. Seen it many times.
On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 12:43:40 GMT someone who may be Appin wrote this:-
I have seen moulded on plugs where the carrier is coloured red or brown, just to make it even clearer.
Kettle near stove. A good way of burning the lead or the kettle.
We recently stayed with ex-pat friends now living in California, and I was surprised to see they had a bog-standard UK-spec 3-pin plug in the garage, which provided 240V for the washing machine. Needless to say the socket was in regular use for various bits of 240V kit they'd brought over from the UK.
Would that socket have been a standard fit then, or something my friends would have brought over from the UK and installed?
David
Almost certainly the latter, since in 30-odd years of visits and 5+ years of doing DIY on my Mum's house, I've never seen anything remotely like a UK 3 pin plug or socket in the DIY sheds/hardware stores in the US. But then, I didn't look very hard, since I wasn't expecting there to be any...
The message from David Hansen contains these words:
The socket is there anyway. Though usually to one side so the kettle goes on the counter and the leads don't generally get burned. However, my point was simply that there was a socket anyway and 240v available anyway. And American stoves are vastly larger than UK stoves which have stupidly small hobs -- not nearly enough room for four decent-sized pans.
The message from Lobster contains these words:
They'd have brought it over, though if they brought the washing machine over as well, I wonder how it fared on the 60Hz current? There are other questions, too, in that if it was simply the usual three wire US supply, both legs would be live when working at 240v and the single-pole switching of a UK socket would break only one leg.
However, there's a perfectly good NEMA series of standard 240v plugs and sockets for the US and they're commonly used. The NEMA 6-15 is a neat plug and a well-made one is very satisfactory.
I've never seen a US stove with a 240v socket - when and where did you see this?
I don't know that I'd say _vastly_ larger - the typical US stove is 30 inches wide, while 24 inches is common in the UK. Most US stoves have 4 burners, with a space in the middle, some have the 4 burners taking up about the same space as a UK stove, with the controls taking up the 6 extra inches on the right. Some newer stoves, at somewhat higher prices, are being made with a fifth burner in the middle space, either a long, high powered one, or a small simmer burner. The front-to-back measurement is much the same in both countries. (Last year, I had to go shopping for new stoves on both sides of the Atlantic...)
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