Check those outlets!

The message from snipped-for-privacy@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel) contains these words:

Oh no -- I remember using them in 1960 -- and for the sake of the record, I was 12 years old :-). Came in various sizes -- looked like a thimble made of porcelain, inside had spiral thread and tapered. Used just like a wire nut. Wires twisted together and Scruit then twisted on in a clockwise direction then sealed in position with insulating tape. Used extensively in ceiling roses and in pressed steel junction boxes for switch drops etc.

Reply to
Appin
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The message from snipped-for-privacy@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel) contains these words:

Very true. Though there are better quality ones made, though not generally used.

Most outlets are duplex -- i.e. two NEMA 5-15 sockets on the one plate.

Reply to
Appin

My parent's house was full of them. wired in the mid 30s with lead covered cable.

However, a friend's house (new in the 60s and still original (pvc) wiring) uses them in the lighting circuit for looping the live in two terminal pole ceiling roses. I was suprised to find them. It wasn't the bigest suprise I found with his wiring, the least said the better.

Reply to
<me9

Yes - years ago, I was helping my Dad run some new wiring in his house, and we discovered that the original knob-and-tube stuff was still there

- and still in use. The house dated from the turn of the last century, and also contained still-connected gas lines for lighting. Some of the light fixtures on the top floor were combos, with both gas and electric fittings. Scary stuff!

Reply to
S Viemeister

Wago Lever work well - as a replacement for the screw terminal block. They still need to be housed in an enclosure & must be accessible (I do not buy the "equivalent for crimp & inaccessible", I do buy the better than crimp because I dislike crimped solid conductor). The mechanical lever adds confidence over the cheaper push-in systems.

Good for alarm interconnects, lighting and 20A radials (20A rating, the 32A rating is UL for 4mm flex only re capacity).

Reply to
js.b1

I remember them being recommended in a textbook in the 1980s. (15th Edition Regs)

Owain

Reply to
Owain

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From most eastern Canada:

This house built in 1970 and wired by self and then inspected (wouldn't be able to do that now!) has duplex 15 amp outlets throughout (and plenty of them), on 20 amp circuit breaker-ed circuits. No ring circuits, so the number of 'radials' are generous. It was/is satisfactory for the wiring from one outlet to the next to be 'through' the duplex. Not here but in some North America jurisdictions however they prefer or insist that the 'through' circuit to the next outlet etc. be wired direct using correct size wire nuts and the outlet itself pigtailed off those. No problem ever without pig- tailing here however.

Back stabbed outlets have got very bad press on a North American news group with content similar to this one. I never use them. Also as mentioned the short term use of Al. wire in the 1970s was not satisfactory and did lead to overheating problems and sometimes the use of switches and outlets by the unknowing rated only for copper wire. One particularly unsatisfactory use was in mobile homes and/or factory built housing; seemed like moving the building along with the greater softness of Al. wire increased bad connections!

The 115/120 volt outlet and lighting circuits are distributed at the main circuit breaker panel (CU) somewhat equally, it is hoped, between the two 'legs' of what is a three wire 120 - 0 - 120) plus ground/ earth, service feed from the distribution transformer nearby. These two legs are often and incorrectly called 'phases'. They are not. The two live wires and the zero voltage neutral being the two ends and the centre tap of a single phase winding of the step down distribution transformer. .

Down the main street in front of us is three phase 'primary' at around

12 or 13 kv. One phase of that goes up the back lane with a couple of pole mounted transformers on it; one of the transformers feeds this house and three or four others, all electrically heated. In recent years they have started using stainless steel cased transformers. Especially near the coast. Our power is almost 100% hydro generated and is very reliable; we discontinued our computer UPS several years ago, meaning to reconnect it but it hasn't' been necessary!

The advantage of aerial distribution is obvious when you see the dedicated and excellent repair crews working some 30 feet up in storm conditions to restore service, usually within an hour or two. Imagine getting a road closed off and obtaining jack hammers/excavators to dig frozen ground at say 11.00 PM some stormy night if the plant were underground! Like wise additions/upgrades such as heavier wires or larger transformers can be done fairly quickly. Within say an hour.

Inside the typical home: Heavier appliances such as permanently wired

120 litre hot water heaters, cooking stoves (big heavy plugs, usually pre wired to the appliance), clothes dryers (also pre-plugged) are on individual heavier circuits. Replaced a 30 amp dryer socket for friend recently and IIRC the socket cost $8 Can. About 5 quid? Electric heaters are permanently wired on 20 amp circuits, ours have individual room bi-metal thermostats. Have only replaced two in 40 years! But smarter thermostats now available and cost of the order of $15 to $25. Around, say 15 quid?

For work bench and work/garage areas we also have 230/240 v outlets used variously for some 230 v tools, couple of 4500/4800 watt shop heaters, small welder etc. And occasional work with some 50+ year old Solon soldering irons!

We have had little trouble with duplex outlets, being careful we replace them promptly if required. I do recall replacing two below the work bench, they get quite a bit of use, and one of them was cracked. Recently noticed that the other half of the passageway duplex into which our bedroom area CO detector is plugged had chipped a small, piece of plastic next to the ground/earth pin. But the only other thing ever plugged into that is an LED night light, one watt perhaps and it doesn't have a ground pin anyway!

As a rough estimate we must have some 75+ wire nuts in this house and have never had a problem with any of them! One thing do favour is the amount of room inside typical NA octagon, switch and other metal wall boxes. There are rules for the number wires that should be contained in each size of box and it's generally very easy to do safe wiring (even including wire nuts) inside them. We know we have one switch box at bottom of basement stairs that probably does not meet wire requirements and have a larger size switch box bought and hung nearby for some occasion when time permits (when we get round to it!) to change it out.

Whereas the one and only UK style 230 volt (3 pronger) outlet in this house above our workbench into which one plugs the typical 13 Amp. fused UK style (often made in China and sold in the Gulf States) has a titchy little metal box! Thank goodness the wiring stops there; there's hardly room for anything but basic connections to a single unswitched UK outlet! Also find North American wiring easier; none of those little brass screws so common on European plugs sockets and lamp fittings.

Other current tasks include replacing a dead GFI outlet in outer wall of the garden shed. Also that circuit's breaker was reduced to 15 amp when we realized that one section of the wire within the shed was only

14 AWG (2.08 sq.mm) not 12 AWG (3.31 sq.mm). So it now meets code.

Noticing that in some UK compliant areas the increasing use of screw in bulbs; again fewer of those little brass screws and the ability to screw the bulb down to improve the contact.

Both UK and North Ameican systems seem to work well. The UK plug and socket seem clunky and over-engineered. The 13 amp fuse, supposedly reduced to as little as 2 amps (460 watts) for some applications is bit of a puzzle. How does one know the fuse rating without opening up the plug and where to store two (not one) spare fuses? BTW the difference in heating time, between a 230 volt 2000 watt or higher electric kettle and the maximum for North American usually being

1100/1200 is remarkable. But we use a plain kettle on one of the two larger 'burners/hobs' of the electric stove/cooker. One advantage being you can put a complete non-electric kettle through the dishwasher!

Which reminds; must go and make a cuppa. Cheers.to all.

PS. How many have heard of a so called 'Edison' wired outlet????? Also sometime called a 'split outlet' and for which and switched outlet purposes, NA duplex outlets are made with a removable tab!

Reply to
terry

If you don't cook beans in the kettle you won't need it to go in the dishwasher. ;)

Reply to
dennis

Nah it gets grunchy and sometime slightly spattered from other stove activities and so a quick swipe with a soap pad and perch it in the dishwasher next time it's run! Same thing with a teapot. Father in law brought up in a wood burning household and being an old soldier used to stick an egg in the kettle, and hard boil it. Then make tea from water in the kettle. Tasted OK to me! And our now 47 year old daughter says she distinctly remembers! Got to go and get that tea; neighbour be over shortly. We've spent part of the day shovelling and snowblowing! Thing about a lot of snow though, it keeps the house warmer and also diverts the wind. we hada drift chest high infront of the house this morning, and thre's more snow on the deck/patio than two VWs. Cheers.

Reply to
terry

If the cables were underground, they wouldn't *need* repairing in stormy weather :-)

Yep, certainly all-electric heating is a lot easier to maintain than a gas & water system like most have in the UK. But without cheap hydroelectric power, it's not cost effective here. (Flats are sometimes all-electric, but that's more for cheapness of building and saving of space.)

Be aware that there are cheap "UK style" plugs and sockets sold in some parts of the world that would be illegal in the UK. If your example is particularly terrible that may be why.

What do they use for terminals instead then?

Screw-in bulbs seem to be coming across in furniture and fittings from continental Europe - certainly all the lights I bought from IKEA had them. The only light I've ever had bulb contact trouble with was a screw-in type - bayonet sockets have spring-loaded contacts so the issue doesn't arise. With that light I didn't even realise it was the bulb at first (thought the switch was dodgy) as I'd never seen the problem before.

I don't understand what the bulb fitting type has to do with brass screws.

I have a box of spare fuses in the shed, but suspect I'm unusual among my peers. The fact is that they very rarely blow.

The fuse size will depend upon the appliance (strictly, upon the size of its cable, but that's part of the appliance for most purposes) so you don't need to know it unless fitting a plug. Most modern stuff is fine with a 13amp fuse anyway as it's also sold in Europe where they don't have per-appliance fuses - though this does tend to mean bulkier cable for small items.

I remember I used to think the reason Americans didn't have kettles was that they all drank coffee instead of tea. Then I learnt it was because their electrics couldn't cope :-)

Pete

Reply to
Pete Verdon

Yup, saw one of those the other day on a new ceiling fan light jobbie I installed for someone. I also looked at them for a moment and wondered before noticing a proper crimp inside. It looked like the crimp may have been done first and then the "nut" screwed on over it to insulate it.

Reply to
John Rumm

That argument works both ways mind you - aerial cables etc are more likely to be blown down, hit by trees etc in the first place.

(we get the same problem here in the uk out in the sticks a bit - overhead 11kv to large transformer at the top of a pair of poles which in turn feeds 4 aerial wires (one neutral and all three phases) down the road with each house tapped off two of the four)

You get the choice here as well, in the sense that the standard backboxes for flush mounting sockets are available in various depths. The 25mm deep ones *are* cramped to wire with any number of cables, but

35mm ones are not too difficult. (47mm being saved for heavy cables etc)

and then twist the bulb right off its metal base when trying to budge it later... (DAMHIK)

Common fuse sizes are 3A, 5A, and 13A.

In a drawer or similar usually... ;-)

To be fair they rarely if ever blow in normal operation. There used to be a time when appliances were supplied without plugs and one had to buy them separately. Needless to say they almost always came prefitted with

13A fuses, which you would have to replace of small appliances. The result being most folks probably have a lifetimes supply of 13A fuses! (I don't recall ever buying one)

Yup 3kW kettles are commonplace. They will boil a couple of cups of water in a bit over a minute. I must admit to not usually giving it much thought until I go round to a mate's house where he uses a traditional kettle on a gas hob - then it seems to take ages to get a hot drink!

If you keep the kettle away from the hob it won't get as messy.

Sounds like a good idea!

Are these the ones designed to allow you the option to power each socket from a different circuit? Where the tabs, if left in, power both sockets from a connection to either one of them usually (and presumably erroneously join the lives of two circuits if not removed when two feeds are in use[1])

[1] Which given your comments about random allocation of the circuits between the two ends of the 120-0-120V supply could make for a short across the supply.
Reply to
John Rumm

There appear to be many many more fires caused by electrical faults in the US than the UK.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

My mother (who lives in Pennsylvania) has an electric kettle. It was quite hard to find, and takes ages to boil...

Reply to
Huge

110V electrics, wooden houses and volunteer fire brigades. Add in 'aluminum' wiring and wirenuts and it's no wonder.
Reply to
Huge

Are they just wood with no fireproofing? Plenty of timber framed buildings in the UK - and internal walls made of wood and plasterboard etc in others.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

And their cars burst into flames every time they run off the road. I've seen it in films.

Reply to
Steve Firth

It took me a while to find an electric kettle when I lived in the US (it was a Russell's). It boiled just fine and more to the point, turned itself off when done, unlike the primitive whistling kettles that all my American friends appeared satisfied to use.

Reply to
Tim Streater

110V means twice the current for any given wattage, and so four times the heating effect at any point (such as a plug) where there's a resistance point. And then such titchy plugs.

I've even saw an "outlet strip" there that consisted of two long slits, so you could plug any number of two pin (flat pins) plugs into the strip (number limited only by how thin the plugs were). That strip was quite hot to the touch.

In my house when I lived there I had normal three-pin, two-pin, two-pin polarised, and 240 volt sockets. An old house admittedly - a lot of the wiring was knob-and-post (I think they called it).

Reply to
Tim Streater

My American niece was given TWO electric-self-turning-off-kettles for Xmas, after forgetting she'd left her 'manual' one boiling away on the hob. The smoke alarm was what reminded her of it.... Currently, it is now quite easy to find decent cordless kettles in the US - even Costco carry them. Some years back, they _were_ very difficult to find, and quite expensive, too.

Reply to
S Viemeister

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