Cctv able to read number plates

We've got simple cctv cameras with IR illuminator around the lens up at the local hall. Lately there's been a problem with boy racers gathering after dark in the car park and antisocial behaviour ensues. The cars can be viewed but reflective number plates are just a washout pres umably caused by the direct reflection of the IR. Has anyone had success in capturing readable images of number plates after dark using economic camer as? I'm guessing the use of a non illuminated camera with a separate illumi nator from an angled location might solve the reflection washout of the ima ge but the hall doesn't want to spend funds without being sure it will work .
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IANAL but if the police are unwilling to take action on the basis of any timed CCTV footage you can provide them with already - basically by lying in wait and catching them in the act - then I doubt your being able to record the number plates would make any difference.
While parking co's record and make use of number plate footage in order to impose penalties, I think there are fairly strict conditions they have to comply with - by way of notices etc.
IOW before seeking any more technical information it might be worth simply checking with the local police and seeking their advice. As obviously number plate information is no good in itself, no matter how clear it is, if there's nothing you can do with it.
michael adams
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On 06/06/2018 20:27, michael adams wrote:

One report, of anti-social use of a motor vehicle (with number) can result in the police issuing the owner with a warning. A second report within a period can result in the vehicle being seized. They are far more likely to do something if you can give the number. They are not going to "waste" resources on lying in wait for relatively minor anti-social behaviour.
SteveW
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As a matter of interest, how do they guard against against malicious reports ?

Relatively minor anti-social behaviour which nevertheless as you've just explained above, can apprently result in a vehicle being seized, on tne second occasion of something being reported by a member of the public.
michael adams
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wrote in message

Fair enough if that was possible. But I was asking in relation to their simply being "given" the number. What's to stop anyone maliciously reporting a neighbour of anti-social driving along with their car number ? More especially if the neighbour is unpopular and other neighbours are willing to back up the malicious complaint. The description of the process makes no mention of CCTV, although obviously that would help. Or there again even better somebody could "borrow" the neighbours car do a few wheelies and get caught on the CCTV even better.
michael adams
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wrote in message

Plenty let others drive their car. Here, if the car is caught on speed cameras, you are free to tell the authoritys who was driving it at the time;.
Same would apply in the situation being discussed.
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Sorry I wasn't clear. By "borrow" there, I meant borrowed without the owner's knowledge or consent. Basically the owner, the unpopular neighbour, would be sound asleep in bed and their car would be nicked from outside their house and driven to where there was a convenient CCTV camera - anti social behaviour with the car would ensue and it would be returned to outside their house. Providing there were no CCTVs directly outside their house, once the people who'd "borrowed" the car reported them to the police, I'd imagine they'd have a hard job convincing the police it wasn't they themselves who were involved in the anti social behaviour in front of the CCTV camera.
In fact, following the example of the guy in the Columbo episode "Columbo and the Murder of a Rock Star" they could even wear masks so as to look like the unpoular neighbour. But he'd probably need to be a real PITA, to go to that much trouble.
michael adams
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I realised that’s what you meant and moved on to the other situation.
Its not that easy to nick a car anymore.

Easy to prove that the car had been nicked by the damage that had been done to the car to be able to nick it.

Pity it isnt that easy to nick cars anymore.

And they would still have to work out how to nick the car.
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They don’t have to with video footage.
In our case they show up at the alleged criminal's place and ask them for their version of the story. Just happened to a mate of mine. His wife was driving his ute which was loaded with big stuff so she couldn’t see what cars were behind her. Someone told the cops that that ute run them off the road when they tried to overtake. When the cops showed up to get his version of the story, he said that he didn’t know anything about it, because he didn’t realise that his wife was the one driving when it happened because he wasn’t in the ute at the time.
The cops have decided to do nothing about it, without even bothering to tell him that.

Not possible here.
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On 06/06/2018 21:24, michael adams wrote:

That is one of the problems that struck me when this legislation was introduced. Lacking CCTV evidence, I think that it was mentioned at the time that it had to be from two independent members of the public. Still not a lot of protection.
Even worse is that there is no right of appeal or avenue for doing so in the legislation. The only route to fight it is apparently by judicial review, which would be very expensive and time consuming. I suppose it would have to be fought out in court on the basis of the owner showing that the accusers were known to them or associated with people who they have a dispute with or by showing that you were not the driver - although the offence can be "attached" to the vehicle and not just the driver.
These days though, I would expect that the police would be wanting to see CCTV or phone video evidence.

The relevant legislation is Section 59. It is not very clear, but apparently (confirmed on police forums and lawyers guidance forums), but the officer only needs to "believe" that the vehicle is being used in an anti-social manner, likely to cause distress or annoyance and that belief can simply be by them receiving reports from the public.
It is wide open to abuse. However, I presume that it is not being hugely abused or there would be stories in the papers about it.
SteveW
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On 06/06/2018 21:09, Steve Walker wrote:

Reported by whom? By Joe Public?
--
--

Adam

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Steve Walker wrote:

Police Reform Act, section 59
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Its a fair cop guv.
michael adams
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Fair emough I stand corrected.
michael adams
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We've had repeated discussion with the local police. Being rural the available manpower is prioritised elsewhere. They have commented that number plate details would be immensely useful.
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On 06/06/2018 19:58, Cynic wrote:

Caltrops are the answer.
Probably best laid in the car park just after your CCTV has had an "unfortunate" accident.
--
Adam

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On 06/06/2018 21:36, ARW wrote:

I like it!
SteveW
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On 06/06/2018 19:58, Cynic wrote:

No-one else has even tried to answer your question. They have been too busy acting like barrack room lawyers. The problem is partly that reflective number plates dazzle the camera, partly that the number plate will be grossly over-exposed because it reflects the IR, and partly that the shutter speed will be automatically low so there will be motion blur. There is no easy solution. You might do better to aim for clear identification shots of the bikes and riders. One way is to have a reasonable level of visible light (30W LED floods) and a camera with a big lens set for a fast shutter speed. Pre-focus on the roadway because the depth of field will be poor. Set the camera so it doesn't switch to monochrome, since colour aids identification.
Bill
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The ANPR cameras must have found it.

Makes a lot more sense to do it the way the ANPR cameras do it.

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snipped-for-privacy@f2s.com says...

+1
My dashcam - a cheapo Aldidl one - starts recording when it detects movement.
If there is somewhere you could mount one where it is reasonable safe and protected from the weather - even if someone has to install it every night just before it gets dark and retrieve it later - I wonder if it would work?
By masking its own IR LEDs and placing it at a different angle to the problem area - possibly near ground level - I wonder if it won't be flooded by the IR from the main camera and record the registration numbers? A simple check with a hand held unit one night would prove or disprove the idea.
Make certain that the date and timestamps on both cameras are correct so that the two recordings tally. Then you would have the main camera recording events while the dashcam records the registration numbers.
The internal battery on mine is rubbish so you might nead an external battery supply but that should be easy to arrange.
--

Terry

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