Car park collapse

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-40986193
There seem to be a distinct lack of rebar in the bit that's fallen off. That can't be right surely?
Tim
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On 19/08/2017 17:18, Tim+ wrote:

That's what I thought too. It goes a long way to explaining why that bit fell off. It will be interesting to see whether they can effectively check the rest of it for structural integrity. My guess is that they will have to demolish the whole lot. More than one multi-storey car park in Norwich has gone the same way (due to deterioration of the concrete rather than lack of rebar). Even one of the replacements had structural issues a few years later.
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Most of them have suffered from lack of maintenance generally and water gets in the cracks etc, and metal inside rusts. I'm expecting several around here to be condemned soon. Bloody eyesores they are. Brian
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On 19/08/2017 17:56, Brian Gaff wrote:

In the picture a transit van has reversed into a wall and knocked it off the deck of the car park.
The question is does the wall have to stop a transit van going through it or not? The car park shows no signs of falling down.
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On 19/08/2017 21:56, dennis@home wrote:

On second thoughts it is falling to bits.
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On 19/08/2017 22:01, dennis@home wrote:

Yup I think some of the deck came off as well as the wall, and just dropped the rear wheels of the van in the process.
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It happens that dennis@home formulated :

It looks to me as if there is a cantelevered section of floor, beyond the main floor, with a wall on the far edge of the cantelevered section. It seems the cantelevered section has collapsed under the extra weight of the van, taking the wall along with it.
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On 20/08/2017 10:41, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

You seem to be correct.
There is another car perilously close to the edge too, implying the floor went further. The floor above is similar.
Something tells me it's all going to come down and rebuilt.
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On 19/08/2017 17:44, Biggles wrote:

Concrete 'cancer'. Inadequate rebar, not covered by sufficient concrete (made worse by the decorative fluting which allows water to penetrate more deeply).
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Looking on Google Streetview it appears to have had some additional tubular steel supports on the exterior to pass some loads down to the ground.
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On 19/08/2017 17:44, Biggles wrote:

Actually, looking at that silver people carrier, I suspect it rammed into the wall in reverse which is which why its wheels are hanging over the edge. That retaining wall has an L shaped bottom which looks like it was attached to the precast flooring sections with rebar. where the man is attacking with a breaker is the top surface so you wouldn't expect to see any rebar there.
Whatever weakness had built up in the structure because of concrete 'cancer' was exposed by the sudden impact.
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Ah, now it becomes a bit clearer why there are vehicles with their rear wheels hanging (or else almost hanging) off the floor. I'd thought that the wall was flush with the vertical pillars and horizontal beams on that floor, and that therefore the collapse had also made vehicles roll backwards. But looking at the floor above, it extends another metre or so, so part of the floor has snapped off, back to the level of the horizontal beam.
The silver Transit-type van doesn't appear to have any damage to its rear end, which you'd expect if it had hit the wall hard enough to snap it off.
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On 19/08/2017 19:17, NY wrote:

Looking at other news photos it looks like the car park was already under renovation and that would be the most likely cause of the collapse.
eg
http://www.nottinghampost.com/news/gallery/pictures-part-city-centre-ncp-350253
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On 19/08/2017 20:44, ARW wrote:

Yup, this image shows it better:
http://i4.nottinghampost.com/incoming/article350230.ece/ALTERNATES/s1227b/190817JT1-16.jpg
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remarked:

The question is: when were those pit-props put there. Before or after the collapse?? Could easily be "after", as part of the process of evacuating the trapped vehicles.
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er.co.uk> escribió: >http://www.nottinghampost.com/news/gallery/pictures-part-city-centre-ncp-350253
Looking at those, my first thought is that the deck overhang past the horizontal support is rather large for such a thin deck, especially with the weight of the vertical fluted fascia panel perched on the end.
Also noticeable that the rear wheels of the silver people carrier are actually past the horizontal support - compare with other parked cars whose rear wheels are more or less sitting on the horizontal beam underneath (see image 23).
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Although the people-carrier is nearer the edge, I don't think its bumper would have hit the parapet. Perhaps they should have roped off that line of parking bays while they fettled around underneath.
The line of overhanging deck/parapet could have peeled away starting at the scaffolding near the blue saloon, and running towards the entry/exit ramps, before being halted by the pit-props.
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On 20/08/2017 07:06, Roland Perry wrote:

No vehicle would hit the wall directly. There is (was) an armco barrier stopping that happening (see images 22 and 26).
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Those Armco barriers are not at the ends of parking bays, they are along the *sides of ramps*.
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On 20/08/2017 09:29, Roland Perry wrote:

The Armco at the side of the ramps is still there.
Look again at picture 26 along with picture 24. The Armco is still attached to and is dangling from the end of the parking bay at the RHS (above the crushed scaffolding). The rest of it landed on the lower level ramp to the private car park underneath the NCP car park.
A look around street view
https://goo.gl/maps/ZDRVLrB5t5U2
gives a better look and feel of the layout than the photos in the newslink.
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Adam

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