Can you add internal movement sensors to bulkhead lamps?

[tim...]

Hi,

My new abode is in a block of flats that has interior lighting provided by (60) bulkhead lamps which are mostly on 24-7 (with some controlled by light sensors so as only on when it is dark)

I have been tasked with looking to see if we can replace some of then with ones which detect movement so that they can be off for the large parts of the day when no-one needs them

It seems that the style of lamps that we have now is not currently available and I suspect there will be resistance to having different style of lamp along the corridor so it's replace all of them or none of them

Currently the bulls we use are 2 times 7W CFLs and the smallest LED replacement that can be styled with "Integrated" movement sensor is 10W so replacing those lamps which will need to remain on 24-7 is going to be negative (after the cost of installation ahs been taken into account)

So the end result of changing all of the lamps has to result in a very significant saving from the ones which are going to go on-off overnight, for this to be worthwhile.

Adding external PIR sensors into the supply is going to be a mess (especially as the corridor was only recently redecorated and there's no way that redecorating afterwards can be justified) so is it possible to obtain just the internal microwave sensors and have them installed inside the lamps that we currently have - there is plenty of space for this.

Anybody have an experience of this.

TIA

Tim

[Andy Burns]

There do seem to be PIR sensors that have been modified to be radar sensors (bizarrely still using the same chips) see Andreas Spiess on youtube ...

bigclive probably has some videos on them too ...

[Martin Brown]

It won't work inside glass. Glass doesn't transmit thermal band IR. If you can get clear plastic bulkhead covers it might.

[Andy Burns]

[Andy Burns]

Probably your easiest retrofit is lamps with radar built-in, though the end-firing lamps might not work best with a bulkhead style shade, also I'd worry about the lifetime of cheap chinese LEDs being enclosed and getting hot.

[tim...]

which is what they are "microwave" and not IR.

You are right that all the integrated ones have plastic covers, but I think that just the norm nowadays, not a requirement of the sensor (BICBW)

tim

[tim...]

if they came in a "stick" form bulb you might be right

fitting a glob into the space available is going to be too much of a rework inside the case, I fear

(Not sure what you mean by "end firing")

tim

[tim...]

whilst "un packaged" devices is the form that is required, I do still need them to be on a board that can be wired into a 240 volts circuit and not 5 volts (I think)

tim

[Andy Burns]

I can see stand-alone radar occupancy sensors from CPC, but I suppose you need to be careful with any mains voltage, bare board, DIY retrofit in a shared space within a block of flats.

[Andy Burns]

Just that "normal" LED lamps expect to be hanging down in a pendant so the light mostly shines down, where a bulkhead fitting often has a reflector (which would be at the top when ceiling mounted) to reflect the light out of the side of the bulb downwards.

[tim...]

It wouldn't be a DIY refit

we'd get a qualified person in to do it

I just want to know if it's possible, - as I'm sure that 9 out of 10 sparkies I ask will not know and we'll have to look hard for the one who does.

But I don't want to go looking for that needle in the haystack, if it isn't in there at all

tim

[tim...]

No

It's screwed in a horizontal position with two fittings for bulbs - one pointing up and the other down (or one pointing to the right and one to the left - or something in between) #

>

[dennis]

You could fit a few wireless PIR sensors and a switch to turn the lights on.

You don't say how long the corridor is so I have no idea how many sensors you would need.

Someone would have to swap the batteries every year or two.

At least an ordinary sparky will know how to do it.

[spuorgelgoog]

If the bulkhead lamps have a conduit knockout available you can probably fix a surface mount detector adjacent to it eg

or

They also do ones with step-down illuminance for various ballasts and dimming systems eg

and custom manufacturing, so with potentially 60 units to modify - unless they are wired in groups - it might be worth contacting them.

Owain

[ARW]

Not with the info Tim has provided.

[spuorgelgoog]

I wouldn't bet on it.

I tried to show an industrial electrician how to wire up a doorbell once.

Owain

[tim...]

well if I was spec-ing the job differently, I would provide different info

The corridor is about 60 yards long with a T at each end

The lamps are controlled from 2 switches inside a "locked" cupboard near one end of the long straight corridor, with one switch controlling one end of the corridor (plus T) and the other switch the other end/T.

There are three or four lamps that are "always on", controlled by a switch somewhere else (couldn't find it, didn't look too hard).

So, if we could put wireless PIRs in the strategic places to register movement in each leg of the T and signal back to a controller that replaces the switches in the cupboard (leaving the ones controlled from elsewhere always on), that would work

But I didn't think of that because I didn't know you could get wireless PIRs. I discounted wired ones in this configuration because we don't want to have to provide a route for all the cables. Obviously, if building from scratch that's what you'd have (as my moving-out-of-property has)

tim

[spuorgelgoog]

Assuming they're G23 base (PL type) then adapters can be had at about £1 each, so that 'ordinary' BC or ES E27 or E14 bulbs can be used, eg

This may open up opportunities of much cheaper/lower wattage LED bulbs. ** the ballasts in the fittings would also have to be removed **

Perhaps if you put up a photo of the exterior/interior of the bulkheads, further suggestions may be made.

Owain

[harry]

Is the project worth it for the saving to be made? You need to work this out before you start. Sounds unlikely to me. Just fit the smallest LEDs as CFLs fail.

If there are staircases involved, movement sensors may not react soon enough to stop accidents. (Dependent on siting.)