Building the Impossible

[david lang]

Anyone seen this new show? Interesting stuff.

Last one I watched they recreated a Roman torsion spring catapult

It was over eight metres high & could fire boulders weighing twenty-six kilos.

Thing that rung alarm bells with me was the range. They started off saying it would work at 400 or so metres, then part way through they 'discovered' the real range in Roman times was about 100 metres - which they more or less achieved.

Not entirely sure this is practical. I know medieval trebuchets had enough range to stay out of extreme bowshot. At 100 metres the Romans would have been easily inside the killing range of a medieval longbow.

Not sure about the range of a composite bow, but surely over 100 metres? Would the Romans have been able to use a catapult in an arrowstorm?

Or did they fudge the figures?

Dave

[The3rd Earl Of Derby]

This should be in the...

Steam powered cars thread.

-- Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

[Lobster]

Dunno, but weren't medieval longbows exceptionally long-ranged (Agincourt, and all that?).

I didn't see the programme, but I saw a similar toy in action last summer on a day out at Warwick Castle, where they've built a trebuchet - fascinating.

[Paul Andrews]

I don't think Medieval and Romans quite fit together..

[Mike Dodd]

Hehehe, I too was somewhat confused with the timeline.

[david lang]

I did carry to say that I wasn't familiar with the range of a composite bow (the kind used in Roman times). I'm assuming an effective range for a composite bow of over 100 metres. The medieval longbow (or the archer behind it) had a killing range of around 400 metres.

Dave

[david lang]

Quick Google reveals that the Roman style composite bow had a similar range to the medieval longbow.

So, did the Romans use these catapults at 100 metres and somehow survive the arrows, or could it have been used at 400 metres and the TV show faked the figures to make good TV?

Dave

[Rob Morley]

I believe ancient Greek bows had a range of 200-250m.

Possibly as much as 350m from what I can find.

I reckon. Apart from the fact that they didn't really think the design through (hence the problems with the trigger mechanism and the tensioning mechanism) they didn't look hard enough for a suitable replacement for the sinew "springs". It was only after they started having problems with the synthetic rope that we saw anyone mention (was it really that long before they realised?) that a sinew spring would have pretensioned itself by drying out - they had to pre-tension the springs by winding them up, which resulted in lack of performance and self-destruction. I think the tension adjustment might only have been used to fine-tune the bow - as soon as you wind it up much the mechanics goes wrong. If it had been me I'd have favoured springs that performed more like the originals, despite the cost to "authenticity" of using modern steel or some other substitute. I wonder what I could do in the back garden with the front suspension off a Morris Marina :-)

[Rick Hughes]

As soon as they got the first test shots in the 'lab' they suddenly decided the translations must be wrong ... I think they just fudged the figures ...

Having been involved with couple of diy & SelfBuild shows, they never let facts get in the way of Television.

Rick

[Rick Hughes]

The bows in Roman times would not be close to the range of an English long bow ...but still would have reached 100m, probably relying on gravity to provide the penetration at range, aiming high and hoping arrows fell down on foes. Horizontal shots going through armour were not a reality .. unless you are in a Hollywood film.

[Chris J Dixon]

Don't just leave us in suspense ....

Chris

[meow2222]

the TV crew have no trubuchet manufacturing experience, and had only one go. The Romans had skilled designers who had built however many. I would assume the difference to be down to this.

NT

[Martin Angove]

Caerphilly Castle has three siege engines on permanent display which are regularly wound up and fired across the moat. Rather fun...