Broken induction hob - who pays?

We've got an induction hob and it has had all manners of abuse and nothing has happened to it yet. I have lost count of the number of heavy pointy things that have been dropped on it.

Just out of interest, how thick is the glass on yours? Ours (a DeDeitrich one) is about 8mm thick and the edges have a 2mm radius on them.

I think you were either extremely unlucky in the way your pepper pot contacted it, or it was flawed to start with.

My gut feeling for such an incident is that an accidental damage claim to your insurers is more appropriate than complaining to the supplying retailer. It's going to be very hard to prove that you didn't do something unreasonable to break it unfortunately.

Steve Steve

Reply to
stevelup
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Ordinarily a fault that occurs within a short time is assumed to be due to an inherent defect in the product, and it would fall to the retailer to prove otherwise.

The OP has in this case however admitted that the damage was caused by accidentally striking the glass top with a hard object. ISTM that the burden would therefore now fall to the OP needing to prove that the damage was due to an inherent defect rather than the retailer having to prove it was caused by misuse - because the misuse is admitted.

I am sure that there are accepted standards of durability for hobs, and the standard is almost certain to contain details of tests that a design must pass. If the manufacturer can show that the design passed such tests, any allegation of a design fault would fail. Such standards usually consist of two different criteria - a force that a unit must withstand without damage, and a (much stronger) force that it must withstand without becoming unsafe. In this case the OP has not said that the hob became dangerous, so I'm assuming that the former force would be the standard in question.

If a design defect cannot be shown, it would then mean proving that the particular hob had a manufacturing defect that made it less durable than the standard demanded. As the part in question is broken, that might be difficult to prove, although a forensic examination of the broken top *might* show pre-existing defects in the glass.

Attempting to prove that the blow that did the damage was less than the force that the hob would be expected to withstand would be impossible IMO. We would have only the OP's subjective opinion as to how hard the mishandled glass pepper pot was struck against the hob at a time when the OPs manual dexterity and/or judgement was demonstrably lacking.

Reply to
Cynic

Where does he describe it as striking?

MBQ

Reply to
Man at B&Q

If you re read the op post it states that he struck the edge with a pepperpot ,

As others have said the cost of expert witness will far outweigh the cost of replacing or repairing the hob

Reply to
steve robinson

FFS, how many times. YOU read the OP "I placed a pepper pot to the left of the hob, and just caught the very edge of the glass. The hob broke."

Which bit of "placed" are you (and Cynic) confusing with "struck"?

MBQ

Reply to
Man at B&Q

he states that he hit the edge of the hob with a pepperpot , nowhere does he say that a pepperpot was placed upon the hob

Reply to
steve robinson

The retailer would have done if they did a repair that fixed a design fault - i.e. doing something more than simply replacing the broken component in order to modify the design. Perhaps fitting a thicker glass, or installing a rubber bumper around the edge etc.

Reply to
Cynic

There is one other possibility and that would be to claim that there was a pre-existing fault other than a design fault - e.g. a small fracture in the edge of the glass or an improperly fitted top etc. that made the unit more fragile than it should have been

I should think that it would need a report from a forensic expert to pull that one though.

Reply to
Cynic

Read the OP again!

MBQ

Reply to
Man at B&Q

Ours is much the same.

Both going to be difficult to prove.

I know. Shit happens.

Reply to
teddysnips

What meaning are you ascribing to the word "caught"? Here's a dictionary list (I say it is definition 13)

catch /kæt?/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[kach] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation verb, caught, catch·ing, noun, adjective ?verb (used with object)

  1. to seize or capture, esp. after pursuit: to catch a criminal; to catch a runaway horse.
  2. to trap or ensnare: to catch a fish.
  3. to intercept and seize; take and hold (something thrown, falling, etc.): to catch a ball; a barrel to catch rain.
  4. to come upon suddenly; surprise or detect, as in some action: I caught him stealing the pumpkin.
  5. to receive, incur, or contract: to catch a cold.
  6. to be in time to get aboard (a train, boat, etc.).
  7. to lay hold of; grasp; clasp: He caught her arm.
  8. to grip, hook, or entangle: The closing door caught his arm.
  9. to allow (something) to become gripped, hooked, snagged, or entangled: He caught his coat on a nail.
  10. to attract or arrest: The painting caught his fancy. His speech caught our attention.
  11. to check or restrain suddenly (often used reflexively): She caught her breath in surprise. He caught himself before he said the wrong thing.
  12. to see or attend: to catch a show.
  13. to strike; hit: The blow caught him on the head.
  14. to become inspired by or aware of: I caught the spirit of the occasion.
  15. to fasten with or as if with a catch: to catch the clasp on a necklace.
  16. to deceive: No one was caught by his sugary words.
  17. to attract the attention of; captivate; charm: She was caught by his smile and good nature.
  18. to grasp with the intellect; comprehend: She failed to catch his meaning.
  19. to hear clearly: We caught snatches of their conversation.
  20. to apprehend and record; capture: The painting caught her expression perfectly.
  21. South Midland and Southern U.S. to assist at the birth of: The town doctor caught more than four hundred children before he retired. ?verb (used without object) 22. to become gripped, hooked, or entangled: Her foot caught in the net.
  22. to overtake someone or something moving (usually fol. by up, up with, or up to).
  23. to take hold: The door lock doesn't catch.
  24. Baseball. to play the position of catcher: He catches for the Yankees.
  25. to become lighted; take fire; ignite: The kindling caught instantly.
  26. to become established, as a crop or plant, after germination and sprouting. ?noun 28. the act of catching.
  27. anything that catches, esp. a device for checking motion, as a latch on a door.
  28. any tricky or concealed drawback: It seems so easy that there must be a catch somewhere.
  29. a slight, momentary break or crack in the voice.
  30. that which is caught, as a quantity of fish: The fisherman brought home a large catch.
  31. a person or thing worth getting, esp. a person regarded as a desirable matrimonial prospect: My mother thinks Pat would be quite a catch.
  32. a game in which a ball is thrown from one person to another: to play catch; to have a catch.
  33. a fragment: catches of a song.
  34. Music. a round, esp. one in which the words are so arranged as to produce ludicrous effects.
  35. Sports. the catching and holding of a batted or thrown ball before it touches the ground.
  36. Rowing. the first part of the stroke, consisting of the placing of the oar into the water.
  37. Agriculture. the establishment of a crop from seed: a catch of clover. ?adjective 40. catchy (def. 3). ?Verb phrases41. catch at, to grasp at eagerly; accept readily: He caught at the chance to get free tickets.
  38. catch on, a. to become popular: That new song is beginning to catch on. b. to grasp mentally; understand: You'd think he'd catch on that he's boring us. c. New England. (in cooking) to scorch or burn slightly; sear: A pot roast is better if allowed to catch on.
  39. catch out, Chiefly British. to catch or discover (a person) in deceit or an error.
  40. catch up, a. to lift or snatch suddenly: Leaves were caught up in the wind. b. to bring or get up to date (often fol. by on or with): to catch up on one's reading. c. to come up to or overtake (something or someone) (usually fol. by with): to catch up with the leader in a race. d. to become involved or entangled with: caught up in the excitement of the crowd. e. to point out to (a person) minor errors, untruths, etc. (usually fol. by on): We caught the teacher up on a number of factual details. f. Falconry. to capture for further training (a hawk that has been flown at hack). g. South Midland and Southern U.S. to harness (a horse or mule). Idioms
  41. catch a crab, (in rowing) to bungle a stroke by failing to get the oar into the water at the beginning or by failing to withdraw it properly at the end.
  42. catch a turn, Nautical. to wind a rope around a bitt, capstan, etc., for one full turn.
  43. catch it, Informal. to receive a reprimand or punishment: He'll catch it from his mother for tearing his good trousers again.
Reply to
Cynic

By using the word "caught" - see my other post where I give the dictionary definitions of that word.

Reply to
Cynic

well if the pepperpot didnt hit the hob it wouldnt have broken it would it

Reply to
steve robinson

Perhaps you should do the same. The OP had the *intention* of placing the pot on the surface next to the hob. But in the process of doing that it caught (i.e. struck) the edge of the hob.

The only other meaning for the word "caught" that would make any sense in this context is that the pepperpot became hooked or ensnared upon the edge of the hob - which seems rather an unlikely interpretation.

Reply to
Cynic

All too late. The glass has been replaced and any forensic evidence that could do so is long gone.

It may have been bad luck and a previous heating cycle had left a concentration of stress lines just where the edge was tapped. Anywhere else could have been fine.It is more than likely that the stress was frozen in during manufacture, though.

It would be interesting to tap the replacement in exactly the same place. But shoving it on an optical bench might be more illuminating.

-- Sue

Reply to
Palindrome

They would have done, but there's nothing to say that anything like this took place or that ither the retailer or the mnufacturer has suggested such.

Reply to
Andy Hall

Put the replacement on an optics bench. If there is an extremely high stress concentration on the edge where the pot struck - there is a good argument for it being an inherent fault. An accident waiting to happen.

-- Sue

Reply to
Palindrome

A scratch can also cause a stress concentration that will fracture under a small blow - after all, that's how glass cutters work.

IMO the most likely is that it was an unlucky blow that managed to "catch it just right". A combination of hitting the glass top in a place where the normal stress lines were the most unfavourable with a part of the pot where the force was concentrated in the smallest area at the worst possible angle. The OP could probably do a similar thing

100 times without being able to reproduce the result (not that I would recommend trying).

Brittle stuff is unpredictable IME. It can withstand all sorts of heavy abuse but then crack with an apparently minor tap. Glass, ceramics, cast iron - horrible stuff to work with ...

Reply to
Cynic

Which ITYF was rather the point that Sue was making :-)

Reply to
Cynic

Hence the "If" -

*If* the repair fixed the design fault - (then one situation exists) *If* the repair reinstated the original state - (then a different situation exists)

There is no indication by the OP as to which situation applies. Either is possible.

-- Sue

Reply to
Palindrome

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