Broken induction hob - who pays?

We bought various Siemens kitchen appliances from a local supplier called Champs which were delivered in December 2007 prior to installation. On unwrapping, the induction hob was proved to be cracked so a replacement was called for. The 2 ovens were installed.

10 days after this, the microwave combination oven went kaput.

This was on December 16th.

I rang Champs immediately who said that they would arrange for an engineer to come out, but whatever happened they would ensure that this oven was working for me for Christmas - we were catering for 12 people. We had been living in the chaos of house renovation since April 2006 and it was important for us To Do Christmas.

The engineer duly arrived on Thursday 20th, located the fault, produced a spare part, which was faulty. They would be unable to provide a new spare part before Christmas. I offered to drive wherever I had to collect the wretched thing from whatever factory, but of course this was not an option.

I rang Champs.

They rummaged around and then said chirpily that they could get me a replacement oven. My relief was immense.

"28th December do you?" they said.

Relief short lived.

I pointed out that Christmas fell before then.

Eventually they were pleased to offer a compromise whereby to secure an oven, I would get an upgrade. This included features I didn't care about (like a grill, which I didn't want, the other oven had a grill) but that was fine until they bashed on their calculator and said it would cost us a further =A3158. Apparently this was a bargain. I pointed out that I had spent about =A33,500 with them (fridge, camera, hoover, hob, ovens). Still, they had me over a barrel and knew it.

I gritted my teeth and bore the pain. These things happen, I resolved to forget about it.

But then a few weeks ago, I placed a pepper pot to the left of the hob, and just caught the very edge of the glass. The hob broke. The pepper pot (small, glass) needless to say was fine, just dandy. The hob needed replacing for safety sake and aesthetics. But apparently despite the item clearly not being Fit For Purpose if its integrity was so very fragile, this was not covered under their guarantees. I said that clearly there was a weakness if the first one arrived cracked and then this went after a couple of months after nothing more brutal than the marginally erroneous placing of a pepper pot. Induction hobs require heavier pans than normal hobs and so one would assume that if they were braced for the task of taking Le Creuset, for example, then a little pepper pot would be child's play.

I was told it would be about =A3300.

That the engineer's first half hour would cost =A367.50.

I went into hysterical free fall prompted not only by the prospect of penury by hob but by the aggressive attitude of the soi-disant area manager.

Our bill is =A3191.98 which, although less than orignally mooted, we have still had to pay and which I don't feel we should have had to pay.

Do we have a case agains either Champs or Siemens, and if so which one?

Thanks

Edward

Reply to
teddysnips
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The retailer. Goods unfit for purpose. Reject the lot. You are damaging your own case titting around like this.

Reply to
mustaphasiddique

She /he has allowed a repair so unless the oven has further related problems then she has little grounds for rejection , by paying for the repair she/he has also admitted that the repair was nessasary because the damage caused was not due to faulty workmanship or components.

The retailer seems to have tried to resolve the issues , its not the retailer fault that a new item fails , these things happen , it also seems the retailer tried to sought the issues by offering an upgrade

Its not the retailers fault that the op is so clumsy

Reply to
steve robinson

You have a case with Champs because they are the supplier and it is with them that you have the contract.

The argument of fit for purpose vs. accidental damage is going to be challenging. Does the manufacturer say anything about taking care of the top?

I would have refused to pay, but now you have it becomes an issue of recovery.

You can begin by asking Champs for a refund. If that doesn't work, then you can move to taking a small claims action. You then have to decide whether you want to spend the time and money pursuing that. If it's half a day of your time and no professional fees, it might be interesting to do that. Otherwise for something that may not be a clear cut situation incurring professional fees is almost certainly going to exceed the amount of the claim, and probably several times over.

Reply to
Andy Hall

I get the impression that you sell for a living. If so you demonstrate admirably why the SOGA came into being.

Reply to
mustaphasiddique

If the repair fixed the design fault - reclaim the cost from the company. They have conceded that it required re-design.

If the repair reinstated the original state - claim off your household insurance. You have conceded that the original state was acceptable.

You cannot simultaneously claim that something is inherently unfit for purpose and claim the costs of reinstating it to that state.

-- Sue

Reply to
Palindrome

The company being the retailer.

Who conceded that a redesign was necessary?

May not be worth it. Many household policies have no claims discounts.

Reply to
Andy Hall

It is, nonetheless, their liability in law, on an item so new, unless it can be shown that the broken hob was entirely the OPs fault.

MBQ

Reply to
Man at B&Q

The fitting of the new item effectively finished that part of the saga. I assume that from Christmas until the last incident you were content with and had not raised any problems with the supplier?

Glass is very hard, knock two pieces together, especially if you catch the edge of one and there is a good chance one will break. The fact it broke when struck on the edge with another piece of glass isn't by itself an indication the hob isn't fit for purpose.

You can throw a chair against a double glazed window and it won't break. Tap it with a sharp point and it will shatter. That's a characteristic of all glass surfaces. It isn't specifically a weakness of this product.

It would be if you placed it on the hob, it isn't if you strike the edge.

Possibly, but not a strong one.

no.

You might find your home insurance better as it was an accident rather than a design or manufacturing flaw.

Reply to
Peter Parry

I am currently issuing a small claim against a "well known large furniture retailer". You do it on line and it costs £60 up front. You then wait and bluff each other out (where we are now). As you say, interesting though!

Reply to
Bob Mannix

Thanks. I think I conclude that induction hobs are probably a bad idea per se, though I wonder why they can't be made of toughened glass.

Edward

Reply to
teddysnips
10 days after this, the microwave combination oven went kaput.

This was on December 16th.

I rang Champs immediately who said that they would arrange for an engineer to come out, but whatever happened they would ensure that this oven was working for me for Christmas - we were catering for 12 people. We had been living in the chaos of house renovation since April 2006 and it was important for us To Do Christmas.

The engineer duly arrived on Thursday 20th, located the fault, produced a spare part, which was faulty. They would be unable to provide a new spare part before Christmas. I offered to drive wherever I had to collect the wretched thing from whatever factory, but of course this was not an option.

I rang Champs.

They rummaged around and then said chirpily that they could get me a replacement oven. My relief was immense.

"28th December do you?" they said.

Relief short lived.

I pointed out that Christmas fell before then.

Eventually they were pleased to offer a compromise whereby to secure an oven, I would get an upgrade. This included features I didn't care about (like a grill, which I didn't want, the other oven had a grill) but that was fine until they bashed on their calculator and said it would cost us a further £158. Apparently this was a bargain. I pointed out that I had spent about £3,500 with them (fridge, camera, hoover, hob, ovens). Still, they had me over a barrel and knew it.

I gritted my teeth and bore the pain. These things happen, I resolved to forget about it.

But then a few weeks ago, I placed a pepper pot to the left of the hob, and just caught the very edge of the glass. The hob broke. The pepper pot (small, glass) needless to say was fine, just dandy. The hob needed replacing for safety sake and aesthetics. But apparently despite the item clearly not being Fit For Purpose if its integrity was so very fragile, this was not covered under their guarantees. I said that clearly there was a weakness if the first one arrived cracked and then this went after a couple of months after nothing more brutal than the marginally erroneous placing of a pepper pot. Induction hobs require heavier pans than normal hobs and so one would assume that if they were braced for the task of taking Le Creuset, for example, then a little pepper pot would be child's play.

I was told it would be about £300.

That the engineer's first half hour would cost £67.50.

I went into hysterical free fall prompted not only by the prospect of penury by hob but by the aggressive attitude of the soi-disant area manager.

Our bill is £191.98 which, although less than orignally mooted, we have still had to pay and which I don't feel we should have had to pay.

Do we have a case agains either Champs or Siemens, and if so which one?

Thanks

Hard to say.

Edward

Reply to
Lord Turkey Cough

I would presume they paid under protest, without prejudice. Equally the seller could be said to have admitted there WAS a faulty workmanship element, as they reduced the cost considerably.

It may not be their *fault* but under SOGA it most definitely is their

*responsibility*.

Mike

--

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'As I walk along these shores I am the history within'

Reply to
Mike Ross

It is difficult to say just from your description whether your assessment that the hob is not fit for purpose is correct. A sharp blow with a corner or point of a hard object is capable of breaking strong glass even when the blow is not perceived as having been very powerful. A spring-loaded centre punch will completely shatter the toughened side window of a car, for example, even though there is no perception of any great force having been applied. It does not mean that the glass is not strong enough to support heavy pots. The lack of damage to the pepper pot (which is probably much thicker glass anyway) means little.

I'll also comment that although the problems with your cooking appliances were unfortunate, it is foreseeable that a complete new kitchen installation may suffer teething problems that could cause a holdup for a couple of weeks, and so IMO part of the responsibility is with yourself for creating such a tight deadline. In retrospect it may perhaps have been better to have made other arrangements for food that year and arranged to "do" Christmas the following year instead. I do not believe that the store handled the situation unreasonably.

Reply to
Cynic

Toughened glass granulates when broken , most cookers that have glass components use toughened glass

Did your unit granulate ?

It may be the case that a toughened glass top when broken may have exposed you to live circuitry

Toughened glass is very suspeptable to breakage if it is impacted on the edge

Reply to
steve robinson

The op has already admitted that he/she hit the hob on the edge of the glass top with a pepperpot , accidental damage is not a warranty issue

Reply to
steve robinson

The seller replaced the original faulty item with an upgraded unit presumably at a discounted price something over and above what the law requires the buyer had the option of accepting or declining this offer , wether they protested or not is not the issue they decided for thier own reasons to accept the retailers offer of a better hob unit

The op then accidentally damaged the new unit ,prior to the damage the op had no reason to complain

And it appears the retailer has not only complied with all the laws concerned with protecting the consumer but actually offered more than is required .

Its not the retailers fault that the op accidentally damaged the glass top

Reply to
steve robinson

No they haven't. Placing something down is not the same as hitting something with it.

We're not 100% it was entirely due to accidental damage and not some fundamental weakness of the product.

MBQ

Reply to
Man at B&Q

No, it split in exactly the same way as a normal piece of float glass.

Well, according to Siemens the broken hob had to be replaced due to elf and safety, even though one can clearly see the electrical parts through the smoky glass. As far as we were concerned, it had to be replaced for aesthetic reasons as well - having spent a small fortune on the kitchen, it would be dumb to allow the broken hob to spoil it all.

As I said, it's not toughened glass Jim, or not as we know it. Though I'm not Mr Pilkington.

I guess my gripe is that if this is a serious piece of kit, to be used in a real kitchen (as opposed to a footballer's wife's kitchen, where they just use the microwave to heat up the pizza and the toaster for the pop tarts) then it should be able to withstand the relatively small impact of a light pepper pot (think Schwarz spice jar and you've got it) being placed on the edge. Ok, I'd accept that dropping a heavy iron pot from a couple of feet might be deleterious, but this thing's got a bigger glass jaw than Frank Bruno.

Anyway, as the Merkins say, I'm just going to suck it up.

Thanks everybody

Edward

Reply to
teddysnips

Yes, you're probably right. But as I'm sure everyone here appreciates, building is almost as stressful as divorce, bereavement or being on The Apprentice, and it's easy to get things out of proportion.

Edward

Reply to
teddysnips

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