It frustrates me that my next door neighbour gets 5Mbps + ADSL downloads via a "talktalk" connection; when I get only ~3Mbps with a dedicated BT Business Broadband connection coming from the same exchange and telegraph pole.
An obvious difference is that neighbours master socket and router are about
2 metres from the point where the cable enters the house; and in my case the internal wiring takes a convoluted route of about 20 metres, crossing and running alongside mains cables....with prehistoric telephone wire
I can easily replace this cable segment with a new cable directly from BT's choccy block where the wire enters the house to my master socket....that almost completely avoids mains wiring and other sources of interference.
My question: I want to use the best grade of wire available to do this. Can anybody recommend what would be best? Will screened twisted pair instrumentation cable, or CAT 6 be any better than ordinary telephone wire for this purpose?
It will make no difference whatsoever (other than screened cable may introduce more noise). Standard telephone wire was used from the exchange, putting a bit of posh stuff at the end won't improve things for you. Running the wire clear of mains cables may, and using only one pair and leaving the ring wire (pin 3) and the unused pin 4 disconnected between the master and extensions may well make a lot of difference.
I would first of all check what sync speed you get if plugged into the test socket on the master socket ( or with any other extension wiring disconnected). You may want to look at the Nosie Margin and attenuation figures your modem gives ( and compare it with next door) and feed it into :
formatting link
'm not saying replacing the wire wont help but just remember it is a very short length in probably 1 -3 km of similar twisted pair cable which goes back to the exchange.
Remember that you are not allowed to do this yourself and BT can charge you for putting right any problems you cause. Having said that there are all sorts of factors that could be causing the difference and you need to adopt a systematic approach to get the optimun performance. This page is a good place to start.
That sort of talk has no place in uk.d-i-y!!!! I'm happy to sail close to the wind.
and BT can charge you
That's exactly what I will be doing in changing the wire. Actually it's the only component that can be changed apart from the master socket itself. It's an easy job but I only want to pull thw wire once, hence the question.
Your problems could be anywhere from the exchange all the way through your internal wiring to your computer. I managed to improve my general connection enormously when I ordered a new business line then persuaded the engineer to run the new overhead line from a different pole. Far better than the old line with ancient bits of wiring. Even then I had major speed problems with Broadband and it took a long time to finally prove that there was a faulty card in the exchange causing errors on the line.
Having new wire inside the house can do no harm. As far as I can see using normal telephone cable should be fine - no need to do anything fancy. Just be aware that it may improve things enormously, but on the other hand it may just eliminate one factor in a very long and complex chain.
I assume your master socket has a built in filter and a dedicated ADSL socket. If not, this could improve things. I got mine from Solwise.
I assume also that you have eliminated all other sources of interference and that when you disconnect all phones etc. so you only have your ADSL connection this does not change anything.
I assume also that you have confirmed that you are using the same router as next door? [Assuming you are using a router, of course.] Some routers/ADSL modems have better tolerance for marginal line conditions.
If your neighbour is particularly helpful you could take your ADSL modem/router, computer etc. next door and test on the line there to confirm that your equipment can achieve 5Mb/s+ using their infrastructure.
Working your way through all the possibilities may take a very long time and a lot of patience.
I am a little surprised that you have an ADSL business connection run over
20m of old wiring. It used to be the case that the master socket was installed as close as possible to the point where the BT line entered the property to eliminate the kind of problems you are trying to fix. Especially, the master socket used to be isolated from any extension wiring so that the link could be tested without any interference from other equipment. Have you checked that BT will not move the socket or run new wiring?
I am suspicius because we are about 5k from the exchange ACF (As the Crow Flies) and AFI am aware these kind of speeds at that distance are not achievable.
In any event I want to improve the wiring in anticipation of future upgrades bringing fibre closer to my home.....and maybe 24Mbit one day!
The Screwfix stuff probably is not to the specification. CAT6 will not make any real difference and in any case it will give the game away should BT have to be involved!
You can buy it here or at a Maplin shop if you have one nearby.
Peter Crosland wibbled on Thursday 29 October 2009 20:46
I think you'd get away with any standard 4 core "phone" wire. I ran some extensions in my last flat with 4 core phone wire from B&Q (it was white too).
Later, I had the option to have the master socket moved for free (ISDN upgrade) by BT. Lazy sod made use of my cable for the extra leg - so it would be fairly hard for them to prove it wasn't them who did it.
Move the master socket as close to the cablee entry as possible, place you router/modem as close to the master socket as possible. Fit an single filter at that point. Might be worth trying different filters, I bought a faceplate one that had good reviews from users on the net but overall it's performance was worse than a "soap on a rope" BT branded MF50 filter.
Moving the master socket your self is techincally not allowed but it's not rocket science to do.
I'm very pleased to have a cable broadband connection. Virgin Media's minimum package costs 20 quid a month and is a quite reliable 10 Mb/s (none of this "up to..." business). I check it regularly.
I recently had the BT man over as my line was playing up. It took a lot of fault-finding but, while he was here, he said that it's current policy to install a NTE5 box whenever they come to a house where there isn't one, so I got him to put one right where the line comes into the house then wired up the extensions from there.
If I was in your position, I'd report an intermittent crackly line and tap them up for a new box while they're there - job done and legal (well...legal-ish, if you disregard the little white lie that there was a problem in the first place!).
Likewise when I converted from ISDN to ADSL + an extra phone line, the BT bod reused the cat5 that came with the NTE9 for the new phone line.
As long as whatever you do is to a decent standard I have not known the bods on the ground complain. (although to be fair, more recently when investigating a line fault, I have one had one BT bod comment that the line from their external JB through to the two master sockets convienently located in a cupboard next to my PABX was not "our cable" and was not using the colour coding they use, but other than that did not seem too bothered. I expressed an mildly interested "oh really" and did not say anything else ;-)
Last time I actually fully rewired a master socket, I corrected a fault the BT fitter had left - he'd wired the incomer into the user side take off and vice versa.
The last time I had a new master installed, the nice bloke actually told me the best way to move it later to make it look pukka (final installation site wasn't ready and as I'd laid him some nice conduit to the wire tether to make his life easy so it was kind of obvious I was the sort of person who'd rewire it anyway). Even left me an offcut of the proper cable - now that's service :)
OTOH unless you have a right jobsworth BT engineer and there is a specific problem, this is never an enforced thing.
I completely relocated the feed from my own house, to a temporary site mobile home, then back to the new house without BT whatsover, and extended it with CAT 5 to a master socket in this home ofice.
When I had an issue with the line some years later, the BT man came in, and his only comment was 'I'll replace that junction box in the loft with one of ours to 'regularise 'your installation'
BT interior cable is not especially high quality, but it is guaranteed to fit the IDC connectors.
Ive dine etrxensive structured cabling to run phones and used CAT5 into BT master sockets (PABX etensions) and it has bnever been a problem. Ive run ISDN and broadband over a CAT 5 cable, and have that (broadband) running now. Again, no especial issues.
Baseband is very tolerant. Broadband is less so. But even so as others jhave pinted out, faced with a mile and a half of historical copper to teh exchnage, a few meters of cable of very slightly different quality is neither here nor there. Its more inportant to keep it clear of strong local interference. Brodadband operates in the MW and LW bands..if an AM radio doesn't pick up hum and interference along your cable run, neither will the phone cable.
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