Best Pipe fittings for DIY plumbing?

[Kevin Brady]

I'm preparing to carry out extensions to domestic hot & cold water pipes for a new kitchen & utility. (A proper plumber is doing anything to do with Gas and central heating pipes).

This is just a short message to guage support for the various types of copper pipe fitting available to me.

e.g. Compression, Push Fit (plastic), Push Fit copper (cuprofit), (End Feed & Capillary - see below) - any others?

Assume all pipework will be hidden i.e behind/beneath kitchen cupboards, this does not need to win any beauty contests.

I'm a fairly capable DIYer (and always spend twice as long as I need for peace of mind), but the thought of solder joints does seem quite daunting.

I have generally bought through screwfix, but happy dealing with plumb centre, jewsons etc in order to get the lowest cost.

Let the arguments (sorry - debates) begin!!!

[Dave]

get a couple of solder fittings and a bit of pipe and try it - it's very easy, just make sure the fittings and pipe are clean (wire wool) and use flux. You'll be soon wondering why you thought it'd be difficult.

[Kevin Brady]

Fine - I'll give it a go, I've always enjoyed playing with flames - please tell me I'll need a big welders mask for something this hardcore.

Sorry - seriously, end feed or capillary ?(is capillary easier/less likely to leak?)

[adder1969]

I always use the regular non ready soldered types unless I'm doing an upside-down joint in an inaccessible area.

[The Wanderer]

Yup, I'd second what Dave said. For a DIYer, I'd go for Yorkshire fittings, and above all else, make sure you clean everything properly, and apply flux. Yes, I know that's what he said as well.....

I always tend to feed a little plumbers' solder as well into the end of the Yorkshire fitting. You might also find it useful to look for a glass fibre protective mat. Shouldn't cost more than a pound or two from your local plumbers' merchant, saves scorching the joists or adjacent cupboard panels if you've got a bit of residual water in a horizontal run, and you're swearing and cursing coz the fitting won't solder properly. :-))

I'd been told years ago that any fool could make decent plumbing joints using capilliary fittings; unfortunately my mentors never thought to mention how important it is to clean the fittings, so first time I tried it (moving a header tank in the loft so I had a useful area to board out) there was water everywhere when I turned the supply back on.

Experience gained is directly proportional to the damage sustained!

[Kevin Brady]

This weekend I'll be practising with the capillary (end feed) joints. Thanks for the help and encouragement.

On the same topic, part of the pipework will be buried beneath the floor within a space I've left in the slab. The plumber suggests i simply lag the pipe in grey foam before burying in sand/cement screed. For this purpose, I don't want any joints down there. So do I

1. Use copper pipe, single length and bent at each end to come up the wall either side of the room. Then copper fittings as already discussed.

OR

1. Use plastic pipe for this section, with plastic to copper adaptor each end (accessible), then copper capillary from then on.

Many thanks for my ongoing benefit of your experience.

[Cuprager]

I felt exactly the same as you with regard to being a little wary of soldered joints. I had a mate show me the basics though, (clean pipe & fittings with wire wool, fine emery paper etc) and i used solder ring fittings. Easy! The advice about using a heatproof mat is good, i was soldering radiator pipework underneath floor level so i dampened down the area first, then put down the mat. Overkill probably but i dont like house fires!

Give it a go on some test bits first to get the idea and you will be fine!

[Dave Plowman (News)]

No. Nor do you really need gloves - although you might need to support the pipes until the solder has set. Protective eye wear is a sensible precaution will all DIY, though.

End feed bought in bulk are a fraction of the price. So experiment with those.

[John Rumm]

Well if you insist, yes.... only don't wear it while trying to solder cos you won't be able to see a blinking thing!

By capillary I take it you mean solder ring?

(end feed and solder ring (aka Yorkshire fittings) are both capillary fittings - that is how the solder gets drawn into the joint)

Solder ring is generally thought of as being easier - clean, flux, heat, wait for a nice bright ring of solder to appear at the end of the fitting, stop heating, don't let it move while cooling.

End feed is cheaper and looks neater, and once you have managed to ween yourself away from the "simplicity" of solder ring fittings you actually find that they are not any harder to use (unless you are working in really confined spaces and can only get enough hands to the job to hold a blowtorch OR solder but not both!).

Once you have the technique sorted (i.e. cleaning and making the joint, then how much heat for how long), both are very reliable. The extra manufacturing complexity of the solder ring fitting _may_result in a higher failure rate as a result of defects in the fitting.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Then there really is no point in using expensive Yorkshires. They're approx 2.5 times the price in bulk.

If you practice with end feed, then take one apart, you'll find all the pipe is tinned, so end feed capillary really does all that is needed.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Another good tip for fireproofing awkward areas is those spare ceramic tiles you bought but never used...

[[news]]

I'd go option 2 in that scenario. in fact, I'd go pushfit and plastic everywhere that couldn't be seen and avoid as many joints as possible. yes I can sweat a joint up but since I don't do it everyday there's a good chance that when the water is turned on at the end of a tiring day, there's a leak and you have to drain the system down and dry the joint out and sweat it up proper.

for the sake of a few quid I take the line of least resistance, every time.

RT

[brugnospamsia]

My background is in electronics soldering - learned my first (painful) lessons as a kid soldering germanium transistors with a 50 watt half inch iron ;--)

Perversely I use Yorkshire fittings AND extra solder :-)

I found the wazy "La-co" flux to be the most reliable - I even managed to solder copper to lead once or twice.

I do as much of the assembly as possible on the bench - the trick being to work out the logical sequence of joints so the next one is warming up and the previous ones cooling down while you're doing the current one ....

I haven't had one of my joints fail yest .....

I'll probably give push-fit a go when I do my central heating ...

Jeremy

[Mike Harrison]

I only trust solder, and prefer end-feed, except in hard-to-get-at places where I'd use capillary. Apart from being cheaper, a big advantage with end-feed is you can solder one end at a time - this is very useful for pre-assembling fittings onto bits of pipe - with capillary, the heat from one end will melt the solder in the other.

Get a blowlamp that has a pre-heat tube (passses gas through edge of flame - often promoted as useable at any orientation without flaring), and use propane/butane mix for maximum power.

[Mike Harrison]

But remember that they may crack.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Oh yes. I wasn't suggesting using wanted spares. Just those boxes you bought for safety two kitchens ago. If you're anything like me. ;-)

FWIW quarry tiles seem to withstand the heat the best.

Other thing I missed out is to use a decent aggressive flux - my favourite being Everflux - and wash the outside of the pipe afterwards. I was told it would work on green copper - and proved it did in a test. Got a bit of grotty old pipe from the cellar and tried it just for fun.

But I still clean even new pipe with wire wool till it gleams - and avoid touching the to be soldered surfaces by hand.

[andrewpreece]

Solder ring fittings are better in less experienced hands, but the secret to end-feed fittings is quite simple: clean not only the pipe with wire-wool, but also the inside of the fitting too, then flux everything. You can get away with not cleaning the inside of a solder ring fitting because there is a naturally tinned ring where the solder is located, so that ring will always be well wetted by solder and make a good joint.

NB; Thre are different fluxes available, there is one in a beige round tin called Tempus or something like that, 'the mild flux'. It is OK but needs all surfaces to be well cleaned. On the other hand, an aggressive flux like 'Everflux' will make a joint without having to clean the joints at all! Some people dislike agressive fluxes because of their corrosive natures.

Andy.

[Jyestyn]

And aggresive flux is not recommended when soldering gas pipe runs :-0

Jason

[Kevin Brady]

Great responses guys - I'm sure I'm not the only one who'll benefit from all that lot - all within the space of a few hours too!

KB, Oxford

[Ian Stirling]

Is it just me, or might a thinner lead-free solder than the ~4mm one be handy for neatness on end-feed?