Looking at a few houses, saw one yesterday that could be right, but no boiler I could find.
Had a hot water tank & rads, so I'm guessing there was a back boiler behind the gas fire?
I have no experience of these things at all. Are they any good? Do I have to have the fire on to get hot water?
What sort of cost to replace?
I had one when I moved in here. Dead reliable, as they are really simple, gravity fed hot water, pumped heating, turn on boiler, and it heats up - no PCBs etc, so very reliable. The downside is they are quite inefficient, though adding up the cost of fitting a new boiler vs keeping the old one may may you think of keeping the old one, albeit at an extra £100+ a year on gas.
No, you dont need the fire on to get hot water, they have separate burners.
We took ours out, had an open fire in its place, with a combi for heat/water. Cost wise nowadays, probably £1200-1500 if you keep existing pipework, could be anything over £3000 if all new radiators and pipework. Alan.
We had a Baxi fire/gas back boiler in our Berkshire house. It was very old. We replaced it with a combi and put a multi fuel stove in the fireplace. Probably worth checking the rest of the system - our hot water cylinder was full of clag and the heat exchanger had rotted through so hot water was mixing with central heating water. Plumber found this out when (a) He tried to drain the CH but it kept filling again via the leaking coil in the cylinder (b) He drained the cylinder then nearly ruined himself tryng to lift it out because there was so much scale in it.
So the back boiler is probably quite old, and the whole system may need a check to confirm that it isn't as knackered as ours was.
Given that, we had the old boiler serviced when we moved in and it seemed to work fine until replaced.
Cheers
Dave R
In message , A.Lee writes
Our house came with a Baxi gas fire/back boiler combination. It had enough oomph to heat the house to 20degrees in all but the coldest weather. It was utterly reliable until British Gas (spit) came to change the meter. In the process of re-starting the boiler he managed to break something, so due to family circumstances we decided to have it replaced with a condensing boiler of the same rated output, plus a gas fire.
The condensing boiler was fitted on a wall so the flue could be sensibly positioned, so now we have a long run of pipework to the pump etc. in the bathroom.
We now struggle to get the house above about 18degrees when it's cold, and run the boiler all day rather than two periods. Heat is wasted from the pipework to the tank in the summer. The old boiler may have been inefficient, but it was in the centre of the house, so the waste heat served the bedrooms.
But Dave can do the radiators and pipework:-)
I did the lot myself including the gas work and then just got a Corgi registered mate to come and check the gas connections (although I had already tested them).
His only complaint was that my pipework was neater than his lads work.
Assuming that the boiler *is* behind the gas fire, it's probably a Baxi Bermuda. As others have said, these work independently of the fire but are not over efficient. They were made from the 1960's until recently (and maybe still?) with a fair amount of added sophistication as time progressed, so a lot will depend on the vintage.
When I say "maybe still" I'm referring to the fact that, for a long time, there wasn't a condensing version - so you couldn't fit one other than in very limited circumstances. But I have a feeling that there is now a condensing version, which is why I think that you can maybe still get them.
Having said all that, is there anywhere else where the boiler might be - such as in the attic - or have you looked everywhere?
saw one yesterday that could be right, but no
or next door :)
NT
The CH system we had put in our previous some 33 years ago was a gas fire with back boiler system by Glowworm. It never broke down, and the gas fire threw out so much heat, even on the low setting, that it was uncomfortable to leave on for any length of time. I kept the system topped up with inhibitor, even the radiators were the original ones when we finally moved out. Loved it to bits. I'll bet a pound to a pinch of salt that I don't see the same lifetime from a modern boiler.
Well, it all depends by what is meant by 'efficient'. If it's a case of (hot water out)/(gas energy in) then I'm sure it is. But the chimney was in the middle of the house and passed by two bedrooms before exiting through the loft and roof. With snowfalls in winter the snow around my chimney never melted any faster than that of my neighbours with condensing boilers; ergo, the heat was staying in the house. Never had any damp in the loft either.
The airing cupboard was lovely and warm, the sort of warmth you have to put a radiator in these days to get - but which for some reason doesn't count as 'inefficiency'.
I suggest the OP doesn't let this be a deal-breaker, but use the situation to negotiate a lower price for the house. If he buys, then have the system checked out, see what spares are available, then make a decision - he might save £100 a year on gas, but never get the cost of a modern boiler back as he'll need a replacement before then.
PS: the last guy who serviced my back-boiler said that his dad had one that was at the time over 40 years old...
Terry Fields
Sort of matches our experience with a Baxi Bermuda back boiler that Dad fitted to the family home in the late 60's. It was still in use and working well when we sold the house in 2004(ish). It did have one brief spate of sooting up but we managed to cure that.
Yes. Turn the fire on, and look for airbricks or similar around the room. You'll probably feel a cold draught coming in. When it was -14C the other week ours managed to freeze a bottle of water /inside/ the house.
If the air brick is close to the fire that may be OK, but you don't want a stream of icy air crossing the room.
Theo
(No, but you might find you can't turn on the CH without the hot water too.)
Wouldn't a back boiler need some sort of access (for servicing and lighting the pilot light for example). Then it would clear if there was one there on not. Perhaps look under the gas fire, see if there are any extra pipes nearby (sometimes disguised as an extension of the chimney breast; tapping it should tell you), or perhaps just ask the owner..
There should in any case be a CH programmer somewhere.
No extra access... you take apart the gas fire to get at the boiler part.
Tracing pipes is a good idea, though it may not be obvious from the fire itself that there are any pipes connected to it.
Theo
Baxi Bermuda the Gas fire component lifts of as a unit to reveal the boiler behind. The controls for the boiler are beneath the fire. If you look down at skirting board level you will be able to see the controls and pipes hidden behind a drop down fascia.
On the two Baxi Bermudas which I have owned in the dim and distant past, there was a clip-on stainless steel panel on the bottom of the fire. You unclipped that to get at the boiler controls.
Indeed. It wouldn't tell you where the boiler was, though.
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