Any views on Ryobi 18v impact driver?

My first drill, a two gear B&D, lasted 14 years. When I replaced it the new drill was larger and cheaper and the difference was night and day.

Look into my eyes, not around my eyes - you know you want one.........

Yes - it was already ordered at 13:50 today (hopefully getting delivered tomorrow).

I am hoping the price isn't just for the Makita badge...

Amazing piece of kit matey - your'e just gonna lurve it!

Let us know what you think when you've had a play with it.

The batteries say one+ on them. The instruction book says one hour charge but the first charge did take about 3 hrs. I doubt if I need a fast charger, another battery would probably be better value.

Anyway the charger is a BC-1815s which appears to be the standard one hour charger (that takes one and a half hours anyway).

Why not? Its the reason I view cars as being disposable.

Ultimately they are, like all things. The question is how soon.

I could buy a Lada or a BMW to go from A to B. Both achieve that objective, but they don't do it with the same degree of speed, comfort and longevity.

Ultimately they are, like all things. The question is how soon.

I could buy a Lada or a BMW to go from A to B. Both achieve that objective, but they don't do it with the same degree of speed, comfort and longevity.

The lada does the speed limit the same as the bmw The lada lasts longer than the bmw. Comfort depends on personal taste as much as anything.. I *hate* leather seats for instance and would avoid buying a car with them.

That depends on whether you limit your scope to public roads in the UK.....

In message , "dennis@home" writes

lacks a degree of street cred, though

Are you sure ?

If you like a spring up the arse, maybe

not my major consideration when buying wheels

Although the Lada would be easier & cheaper to maintain.....

Absolutely they don't! A DIY guy buying, for example a cheap SDS is going to increase his efficiency manyfold, but is unlikely to use the tool enough for service & replacement to become an issue.

It is for most DIY people. The time is spent enjoying a hobby.

Of course it is! A mid range power tool will give a cost efficient lifetime for a DIY user.

Not a put down at all. DIY use is light & occassional compared to trade use. To return to the SDS/impact driver/biscuit joiner example they will be used on average a dozen times a year, not every day.

See above. The average DIY guy is enjoying a hobby. Thus the time spent enjoying it is free.

Certainly my initial motivation. The cash outlay also applies to the purchase of power tools of course. No saving if you spend more buying top line power tools than the professional would charge.

True but hardly relevant to the discussion.

Exactly - its a hobby, thus time isn't the critical factor.

Top quality tools have their place in this example certainly.

That assumes you have the means to purchase the top quality tool in the first place, many don't and the time taken to save for it would mean projects would take forever.

How 'better'? It wouldn't drill holes any faster in practice, given the light use longevity isnt an issue. More impressive? That assumes non DIY people are aware of power tool brand names - they aren't.

On 2008-04-11 00:29:16 +0100, "The Medway Handyman" said:

Certainly they do. You are thinking on too narrow a basis.

On the contrary. If something is of poor design, material and build quality, it is more likely to suffer an early failure.

There are a wide variety of motivations, of which enjoying a hobby is one possible one. In this case, time is also important because if it is wasted returning and rebuying poor tools, it is not being spent on enjoying the hobby. One doesn't see a line of happy faces waiting in line at the returns desk at the DIY shed. The more likely conversation is that want to know why this piece of junk that they bought has fallen apart after little use and are unlikely to be happy about that.

That would be ignoring all other aspects apart from money exiting wallet. There are also the issues of outcome, time taken in addressing failures and detraction from enjoyment.

For some people it is and for others it is not.

That depends on the user. I certainly use a biscuit joiner more than a dozen times a year.

One particular motivation for DIY is as a hobby. There are numerous others, as I indicated. Even in the case of hobbies, time is not free. One of the whole points of a hobby is to maximise time spent on it. Going yet again to the DIY store to replace a broken or unsuitable product is hardly adding to tim spent on the hobby or enjoying it. In fat it's a waste of time for all concerned, including the retailer.

Which is why it should be looked at over a period of time and not simply on a one job basis.

Very relevant to this discussion. Too often I have seen the work of so-called professionals, even highly recommended ones, being substandard because they are not willing or able to complete the finish to a high standard. Then one gets into the "well it's good enough for everybody else" discussion. My response to that one is that they quoted for a 100% job, not a 70% one. In the end, it isn't worth the pain of getting people to come back and do the remaining 30% that they perceive as 5% and "good enough". So the old maxim of "if you want a job done properly, do it yourself" certainly applies.

Time, in relation to a hobby is certainly a critical factor. DIY supermarkets have succeeded to the extent that they have to a large extent because to a large extent everything can be purchased under one roof. Even with these, large amounts of time can be taken simply sourcing materials and tools for a project. Time wasted on returning and replacing defective products is a huge factor - easily half a day can go on such an exercise depending on distance from store. That's time that could have gone on completing a job properly and having the satisfaction from doing so.

They do, and certainly it falls within the realms of DIY.

That's a separate discussion. Ability to pay is a factor in any purchase decision, but is not the same as cost justification. For example, one might choose to have an extension built and to pay a builder to do the ground works and shell, with the home owner completing the interior works on the basis of a cost saving and improved finish or because of the enjoyment in so doing. The project funding itself might come directly out of pocket or via other means such as an addition to the mortgage. The motivations for building an extension are well known, so don't need to be repeated in detail, but one is of an improvement in property value or saleability over a period of time. I'll immediately add that taken in isolation, it would make little sense to pay for a drill, with interest over a 20 year period - it's a depreciating asset. However if one considers the context of a major project followed by others and smaller jobs in between, then lifetime cost of ownership can be considered as well. Then the equation becomes one of do I buy some cheap thing and practically and financially write it off over the course of the initial project, or do I take a longer term view and consider the outlay to be spread over a longer period of time? To look at it a different way, purchase of a £150 drill vs. a £50 one is practically irrelevant in the context of a £30k house extension - the discussion is about £100 in cash terms. If the results are a) better outcome, b) better amortisation of depreciating asset over time and c) less time wasted on sourcing replacements, then the arguments for purchasing a good quality tool are simple and compelling.

I would have thought that your curtain lady and her customers would have heard of Bosch - there's a reasonable chance that they will have seen their domestic appliances and will have realised that they are of moderately good quality and reputation. Since you made the point about this being a customer service issue, and not wanting to show up at a customer in a rusty pile of junk that should have been at the breakers years ago and having your arse hanging out of the back of your jeans, you've obviously understood that visual impression and looking professional is important.

Hence, considering that objective, and the context of Bosch being a well known name, it could easily be worth the extra £50 over a period of time to be using one of those for these jobs rather than something that looks like it was made by Mattel or used by Flash Gordon.

Possibly true. Try doing mantenance on a generic, private label power tool, however.

It never ceases to amaze me how often I see people in places like B&Q with a broken something or other that's conveniently just outside warranty and asking where they can find the parts for it. Of course its as possible for the cheap generic tool manufacturers to supply spare parts as it is for Lada to do so. The point is that they choose not to, and for some reason many people seem to have a disconnect in their brain about paying a low price yet still expecting proper service.

So it would be better if Dave turned up at the curtain lady's with an inferior (according to you) Bosch than a superior (according to you) Makita or Festool, because the Curtain Lady's heard of Bosch? It's all about bling, is it?

And what if the Curtain Lady's read Andy Hall's Big Book of Economics (Reading age 4- 7) and remembers the chapter on Lidl... "They should stick to selling cauliflowers"? She'll turn to Dave and say, "Bosch... they should stick to selling washing machines."

I've had this discussion with many so called sales directors in the past. The sort that move from one industry to the next on the basis that no experience or knowledge is required, just positive thought.

Quality, service & price are all factors in a buying decision. The 'think positive' sales director types always claim that price is the least important factor, wheras the guys on the street know the first question from the punter is likely to be 'how much'.

High price can be justified by high quality & better value of course.

Funny how that argument changed when I asked when my Mondeo would be replaced by a Mercedes........ suddenly price became the most important factor.

Good enough is good enough to many.

I've no idea whether Dave is a medallion man or not.

If appearance and impression to a specific target audience is that important to him then yes, choice of product is important. He has already said that it is worth £40 and that he doesn't want to show up with something that looks like a refugee from a building site. Why would he want to show up with something that looks like it was purchased in Toys R Us?

If appearance to a different target audience is important, then one of the other brands may be suitable.

In SDS drills, I would rate Bosch more hghly than the others because they invented th technology and have consistently had a good and solid product range. This does not mean that I would say that Makita, at around the same price point doesn't also make a good product, or for that matter, DeWalt.

If the crtierion were a consistent range of good quality cordless drills then Makita is the obvious choice.

Festool would have been irrelevant since they do not make SDS drills.

OTOH, if he were doing kitchen fitting, he would find that a Festool C12 would score on all aspects of non masonry work.

One has to look at purpose and applications and then which manufacturers have the best products of the tool type.

This is why it's important to research carefully and from muliple sources looking at track record as well.

She may do, although both washing machines and power tools are considered to be electrical goods and Bosch is well known to be a multinational electrical products manufacturer.

I am sure that Dave's customers are sufficiently intelligent and discerning to be able to understand the difference between that and a grotty supermarket warehouse selling cheap tat next to cauliflowers.

Yes, so have I. It fails, and ultimately fails them.

This depends on the market, the product/service and its positioning. Some products and services are price sensitive, others are not. Some customers are more price sensitive and others are not.

It's why we have some products targeted to customers who are primarily price sensitive and others for customers who consider that quality and service are important, have a value and are willing to pay for that.

However, don't make the assumption that people who buy on price are not also looking for good service. They may well be. The problem is that there is not usually enough margin to pay for it, or the customer is unwilling to pay the extra for service.

Equally, don't make the assumption that customers who are looking for good quality and service are soft targets for price. However, they are more likely to appreciate that there is a cost involved in providing good service and are willing to pay for that.

Ah well.

Good enough, is good enough to some. One can always strive to improve.