advice sought on buying a plot to farm self-sufficiently & live on

[Tim Watts]

if in Thaliand, take face masks...

[geoff]

Ah - Thailand - woke up to find a malayan pit viper sleeping in the rafters above my head there

[Dave Starling]

I've also heard a similar story about foxes breaking into hen coops and just murdering all the hens. The foxes just go into a killing frenzy and as you say, don't leave anything alive. The owner had just used bog standard chicken wire and the fox had simply ran at it repeatedly until it forced a way through.

I know about the hunting ban with horse/dogs, but are you allowed to capture and/or shoot a fox if its on your land?

Reading the the news today that a fox snook into a house and mauled two babies whilst they were asleep in their cots. Does rather make wonder what would have happened if the mother? hadn't disturbed the fox in the act.

Dave.

[Roger Chapman]

Foxes are vermin and can be shot on sight subject to the normal rules on discharging firearms.

[Bruce]

Perhaps the story wouldn't have been quite so sensational if the attack had been in a rural area rather than urban Stoke Newington.

I wonder whether the sharp rise in the "urban fox" population has been in any way triggered by "New" Labour's ban on fox hunting.

[Howard Neil]

Use a beagle? ;-)

[Allthumbs]

several for 300K, sounds good.

[Tom]

Bruce wrote in news: [e-mail]:

The key difficulties are to get enough B12 and calcium. Note that deficiencies in those take *decades* to appear, so it is entirely possible that someone that become a vegan diet can easily appear to be getting adequate nutrition.

Often vegans correctly state that there are many vegans in developing countries, and they don't get B12 deficiency, so it must be OK. It is then amusing to watch their face when they hear the actual source of their B12. Hint: it isn't a nice thought, and definitely is not for the squeamish. See the "dietary sources" section of

B12 and calcuim can be safely obtained from "artificial" supplements, but they can be difficult to obtain them directly from food. If in doubt, use the USDA nutrient database to calculate the amount of an ingredient that someone would have to eat to get their RDA.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Its almost impossible to get a rifle licenses these days, and using a shotgun against foxes is not good news if at any range. 60 yards is about the limit, and even then, the fox will probably limp away to die of infections after several days of agony.

Dogs are far better, safer and more humane killers. Either the fox escapes, or its dead within seconds.

To kill a fox cleanly needs a rifle of at least .22, preferably .25 calibre, and a pretty nasty hollow point bullet, and sights, and a marksmen capable of an accurate head or heart shot, at distance, and deployed in such a way that the bullet can not fly off into the distance and hit some lone walker a couple of miles away. Single bullet firearms are lethal (though not accurate) up to several miles.

Dogs are far safer. You cant go on a killing spree with dogs.

Same probably.

Still rottweilers have killed more babies so far.

We ban those, but ban dogs also that can kill foxes (but not babies) from so doing.,

Immediately a law that is political, but not effective, can be clearly seen.

[The Natural Philosopher]

And all the other restrictions surrounding ownership of said firearms, which are not inconsiderable.

sufficient enough to make e.g. wandering through the streets of a town with a loaded firearm 'hunting foxes m'lud' likely to net you a pretty hefty jail term.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Probably not, to be fair.

There are really two sorts of fox hunting: one is sporty and colourful, and done by men in red jackets half pissed on horseback, and kills very few foxes, and not a few riders and horses.

Still each to his own.

The other sort is professional drives done probably largely on foot in difficult horse country, accompanied by large packs of dogs, and is ruthless and dull. And any combination in between.

The idea of the first is to make a virtue of necessity and have a bit of a jolly jape, the idea of the latter is to dramatically reduce breeding populations in the most efficient manner. And dogs are it.

Its possible that population pressure has driven foxes into urban areas, but irs really far more likely that inner cities that are relatively unmanaged, become as useful to the hunter gatherers of the animal world, as to the hunter gatherer street gangs of humans that inhabit them. Its more symptomatic of incipient breakdown of social order than anything else. If trash is left uncollected outside, rats and foxes will turn up.

[dennis]

More likely the foxes moved into towns as a result of them being hunted. They seek out anywhere they can survive and they didn't need to go into town when they could live in the countryside. Something else to blame the fox hunters for.

[nmm1]

60 yards? No way, Jose! More like 30, when loaded with number 3, and not the usual number 6. It isn't just the velocity, but the pattern. Number 6 will merely cause gangrene, most of the time.

The law was not intended to reduce the suffering of foxes - the predicted (and probable) increase in that was regarded by the pro-ban campaigners as acceptable. ALL of the legal alternatives are more cruel than hunting with dogs - shooting, poison and gin traps.

Regards, Nick Maclaren.

[®óñ© © ²°¹°]

[Huge]

I had a praying mantis fall on my head from the thatched roof of the hut we were eating dinner in one night in Kenya. To my enormous surprise I didn't have the screaming heeby-jeebies.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Indeed. That's why I said about the limit. And mentioned that teh fox would even then not be killed cleanly.

So what was the law for then?

[The Natural Philosopher]

Nope. Crickets IIRC. Locusts were even bigger!

>

[tony sayer]

So what did it taste like then?..

Found a lot of very small creepy crawlies in the sugar bowl in Kenya didn't notice them till later;!.

Under some brighter lights. Often wondered just what we had for dinner still all part of the Africa experience;!...

[Tony Bryer]

But isn't it the case than in hunting areas, shooting foxes is viewed as bad form?

[dennis]

Its illegal to cause unnecessary suffering and gin traps are illegal anyway. I will report and remove any I find.