A chilling forecast.

<snip>

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Seeing that with such a device you can go both downwind and upwind faster than the wind, there must surely be a compromise where you can go round in circles with /no/ wind? I feel a patent coming on.

And a song. The Windmills of your Mind - "Like a circle in a spiral, like a wheel within a wheel..."

Reply to
Clive Arthur
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But is it the most reliable?

Is it, in fact, sufficiently reliable to be the sole or main source of power for industrial, commercial and domestic use?

A nice straight "Yes" or "No" would be the most useful answer, qualified with another paragraph if you think it necessary.

Reply to
JNugent

Er. no.

The available energy in the wind is relative to the speed of the vehicle.

As it travels down wind, that tends towards zero. As it travels upwind, that actually increases, and across the wind, it is relatively constant. with speed.

If there is no wind, there is no energy to start the vehicle moving.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

It is neither reliable nor cheap. He is simply lying. All renewable energy advocates do that. The inconvenient truth is that renewables are a massively expensive way to achieve higher energy prices and that is all.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

My maths master was a keen sailor and told us 13 year olds that a sailing vessel on a broad reach has a maximum speed of 1.4 times the waterline length. Sadly I don't remember the units used. I don't know why that statement should have stuck when most of the rest has gone.

In his spare time he made working model railway steam engines!

Reply to
Tim Lamb

mostly true, but not germane especially not to a hydrofoil boat.

1.4 times the waterline length. is sort of a 'sound barrier' for *displacement* hulls. The drag increases dramatically at that point

Of course it can be exceeded, but you need a lot of power

Or get the hull out of the water..

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Well worth a watch.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

Ye cannae change the laws of physics.

Reply to
Jeff Gaines

Feet and knots - and true for displacement hulls.

Reply to
Jeff Gaines

And (as memory serves), it is the square root of the waterline length.

Adrian

Reply to
Adrian

In message snipped-for-privacy@ffoil.org.uk>, Adrian snipped-for-privacy@ku.gro.lioff> writes

So a 100 foot vessel could do 1.4x10 knots!

Reply to
Tim Lamb

That sounds fairly correct. I am sure the detail is in wiki somewhere

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There you go.

But its 1.34 times the *square root* of the length in feet...as you said.

Itr not hard and fast. Obviously hydroplanes go much faster, but in the days of sail, it was fairly close to a hard limit

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

But see, this is the problem. You are one of many who say that they are "largely ignorant of how to do it", but then because of that ignorance, imagine that it might be possible and try to push other ignorant people towards insisting that it might be possible, and ignoring anyone who can show that it is not. If you don't have a viable plan, or actual facts to contribute, what is the point of you?

Reply to
Tim Streater

What have I ignored? What has been shown to be impossible? Who am I pushing?

Lol, yeah, if you do the same repetitive task time after time you can be confident of what needs to be done, what will happen. If you are doing something new, innovative, that certainty disappears. A viable plan for replacing carbon, fuels, economic energy security, that is quite a big ask. Anything else you want me to do?

At work did you ever develop new stuff?

Reply to
Pancho

It is what I call the 'art student' problem. People in positions of power who are probably at leats partially honest, but ignorant, seek advice from those who are dishonest and have an agenda, political or commercial, and the result is a right buggers muddle.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

That is the problem, You don't *know* what you have missed.

You are like the people in the village, who would go out into the market square, and listen to words of great wisdom being read by the one man in the village who owned a book.

One day the grandson of one of the villagers who had gone away to school, and learnt to read, came by and remarked.

"You cant read: You are holding the book upside down!"

The man replied

"What difference does it make to a man who can read, which way up the book is?"

And the village all applauded.

That is why you go to first principles, to start with the things you

*are* certain of. Laws of physics. Cost of concrete. Energy density of wind and sun. EROEI.

No, just come up with that one.

Like I did:

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It isn't definitive, and it is probably wrong in places, but at least I tried to understand the problem.

Not hand wave awkward issues away.

Tons. And it's bloody hard and you have to go back to first principles sometimes.

And no one *wants* to believe you half the time.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

err, really ?. My neighbour wondered why excess leccy could not be used to drive the stationary wind turbines so that they could create wind and use that to generate more power. He's not the brightest of sparks though :-)

Reply to
Andrew

Bit of a problem when you have to go through a tunnel or under a bridge :-)

Reply to
Andrew

Airbus planes have an emergency windmill generator that pops down into the airflow if both engines fail. This could be extended further by replacing the two jet engines with electric motors and leaving the emergency wind generator on all the time. There, aviation net zero sorted.

Reply to
Andrew

You can if yOu are a Limp Dem or a Green.

You can fool all of the people some of the time. You can fool some of the people all of the time. But Ye cannot fool all of the people all of the time.

Reply to
Andrew

Mmmm. Sounds like they guy who didn't win the prize he thought he should have won, because he didn't understand that a temp of -10 is lower thatn -5.

Reply to
Tim Streater

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