A chilling forecast.

[The Natural Philosopher]

From the Telegraph...

"Economic growth as we know it is impossible if governments shift to 100 per cent renewable energy, a renowned French climatologist has said.

Jean-Marc Jancovici, the author of World Without End, the graphic novel on climate change which has sold nearly a million copies in France, said that wind, solar and hydroelectric power offer no miracle solution and “will not allow us to maintain today’s modern industrial world”.

He said: “Globalisation is basically ships, trucks, planes and computers, and all this relies on fossil fuels. The idea that we can keep all that in a world with only renewable energies is a bold assumption and I don’t believe that such a shift is compatible with maintaining growth in physical economic output.

“It’s also an unproven assumption to claim that renewable energy will remain cheap in a world with only renewable energy.”

Controversially for many greens, Mr Jancovici argues that nuclear power is an effective way to soften the blow with an “emergency parachute” to reduce the risk of “social collapse”.

--------------------------------------------------------- This is the default position of intelligent greens who believe in climate change but understand engineering and economics.

[alan_m]

Try telling this to someone I know who installed some solar panels to help power the heat pump over winter. :) :)

[The Natural Philosopher]

Oh dont.

I remeber my ex FIL, now deceased, who paid £5000 because solar water panels would 'cut his heaing bill in half'. I pointed out that the brochure said 'would cut his *hot water* heating bills' in half. Not his *house* heating bills,.

He wouldn't listen. It saved him nearly £60/year

[Spike]

Only a week or two ago a ‘green’ woman being interviewed on the radio came out with the familiar, well-worn but completely untrue claim that ‘wind is the cheapest source of electricity’. This was on the BBC, of course, and of course it went unquestioned by the interviewer.

We have heard this claimed time and again, but it totally ignores how electricity is wholesaled. None of us see any form of cheap electricity in our bills, except for those tariffs that follow spot prices so inconveniently, and for so little overall savings.

[The Natural Philosopher]

It is a complete lie.

Capacity for capacity yes, a wind turbine is the cheapest form of power station.

- But it doesn't operate at full capacity. On average less than 30% of it.

- It doesn't last as long - typically 12 -10 years versus 50-60 for fossil or nuclear.

- It is not near where the demand is, so it needs long expensive cables to deliver its power. Cables that are idle when the wind doesn't blow.

- It needs expensive gas power stations when the wind doesnt blow. That are also idle when it does.

- It needs expensive interconnectors to places with hydro or nuclear power, that sometimes carry nothing at all.

- It needs expensive batteries to replace the inertia of the spinning mass of steam turbines and alternators.

- It needs constant maintenance by helicopters or ships or off road vehicles, none of which are battery powered, as the mean time between failures of some part of it is measured not on years or months, but in weeks.

- The cost of decommissioning it is not borne by the wind companies, but by the public.

The holistic cost of a wind powered *grid*, is about 3-5 times that of one powered by fossil or nuclear.

As anyone who isn't f****ng stupid has noticed on their electricity bills.

[TimW]

Wind _is_ the cheapest source of electricity. No question.

Maybe you have some cheaper source? Tell us.

TW

[alan_m]

The other one that is never questioned is that the wind blows somewhere in the UK at all times. Unless 100% of the wind generators are actually at the location where the wind is blowing, perhaps the north of Scotland on Monday and the tip of Cornwall on Tuesday, then we will need a massive amount of redundancy to meet our need. Perhaps the windmill policy could be modified and they all could be mounted on trucks and moved on a day to day basis to where the wind is blowing.

[Harry Bloomfield Esq]

+1

[Tim+]

You know they’re powered by light, not heat?

Tim

[Harry Bloomfield Esq]

That's it, sorted.. Not!

[Clive Arthur]

<snipped>

Easier to link them all together via the grid so that the becalmed ones are driven by power from the bewinded ones. That way, with enough turbines, we can even out the wind across the country.

[Jethro_uk]

TL;DR, energy and money are equivalent. And in both cases no need for the poor to have either.

A lot of "globalisation" (as Covid showed) is a little madey uppy too.

100+ mile daily commutes for example.

[alan_m]

If you ignore the infrastructure to support them.

It would help if the wind generators were all located where the power is actually used and where the grid already exists.

How long before the other section of the "green community" start campaigning that wind generators on the sky line and fields full of solar power are ruining the natural beauty of the countryside?

[Pamela]

[Jeff Gaines]

Electric trucks???

[The Natural Philosopher]

That's why I built Gridwatch™. To see how true that was...

Its a classic example of ArtStudent thinking 'The wind is always blowing somewhere' The engineer says 'sure, but where, and how much?'

The answer is "f****ng miles away and not enough to make a difference"

[The Natural Philosopher]

strictly I think solar panels respond to red mainly

The difference between light and heat is blurred

[The Natural Philosopher]

I forgot that the f****it TimW still existed, he's been killfiled so long

Of course wind is not the cheapest source of electricity. Uranium is. You can dig it out of the ground for nothing.

Like coal. Or oil. Or gas. Or cutting down trees. None of it costs anything.

What costs is the all the man hours to build the kit you need to turn those *free* sources of energy into *stable reliable electricity*.

Not just electricity, when the wind happens to be blowing, at the place it happens to be blowing.

That is as stupid as saying 'ice is free, in the arctic' when you are in Casablanca and want a cold beer.

But it's TimW, so stupid is as stupid does.

And covering it with dead birds bats and insects?

And polluting it with noise, and leaving behind un decommissioned concrete plugs.

[alan_m]

If you install a wind turbine on the bed of the electric truck the forward motion when travelling will turn the blades of the turbines and provide enough power for the truck. A truly green solution.

[Fredxx]

No smiley?