25 Year Old Warm Air Boiler

[MATTHEW.SWALE]

Good afternoon,

I am in the process of buying a property and have had the boiler checked. British Gas have said it is unsafe and cannot be repaired as the boiler type was made with Asbestos and it is so old anyway.

It looks as if I will need to negociate a price reduction with this, has anybody had to replace their warm air boilers in the past? How much is it likely to cost? Is there a way around it?

I am reluctant to install a new radiator system as it is likely to cost double and it is only a buy-to-let, any thoughts?

Regards,

Mat.

[manatbandq]

First thing to do is get a second opinion from someone (anyone!) other than BG. They are notorious for condemning equipment as being unrepairable when spares are readily available from other suppliers.

If I were staying in the house I would replace with a wet system every time but I understand your concerns and repair/replacement may be the best option for you so long as tenants are happy with warm air heating. Check with a few letting agents that it's not going to be an issue.

MBQ

[John]

First, get another CORGI to look at it - British Gas may have condemned it unnecessarily. If, however, they are right, these are the people for supplying a new boiler:

[Grow Your Own Energy]

Have you considered an Air Heat Pump?

An energy efficient alternative to wet central heating, you'd also be doing your bit to reduce emissions and save money. There's free impartial advice on heat pumps and lots of other renewable technology at

Have a go at the Technology Benefits Questionnaire - this asks you a series of questions about your home and will send you a free report on what is viable for your property.

[Mike Clarke]

Check the flue as well as the heater unit. We had warm air in our previous house and the flue followed a very torturous route up through the house. A new heating unit using the old flue wouldn't have complied with the regs. Relocating the heating unit to meet flue requirements would have involved major, expensive and inconvenient, rerouting of the air ducts. We found that a wet system was the only viable alternative.

[Tony Bryer]

It's a long while since he did it, but a friend of mine found himself in a similar position but was able to obtain a heat exchanger which directly replaced the original warm air 'boiler', this being heated by a normal wall-hung boiler. Minus: probably not as good a system as radiators); Plus: quick easy installation with minimum changes to decor.

the sort of thing he installed

[Grumps]

My mum had a Johnson & Starley J32 (I think) fitted last year (or was it the year before?). It cost about £1700 to supply, fit, remove old unit, remove old asbestos flue, remove old water heater, and make it all good as new :) This was just under £1000 cheaper than BG, and BG quoted for a lower power unit. Note that this J32 does not heat the water, just central heating.

I certainly wouldn't be put off buying a property because it had warm air heating.

[Doctor Drivel]

Nonsense. Forced air beat a wet system hands down.

[Doctor Drivel]

are far more advanced with modulating burners and modulating fans with electrostatic air filters, etc. They also have the summer mode which circulates air in summer, this really doe keep the temperature down. The new units are quieter than the old.

[manatbandq]

Nope, it was a statement of fact.

That's just opinion which can, indeed, be nonsense.

Please put me in your killfile.

MBQ

[Doctor Drivel]

Perceptions are the problem in the UK. There are over 1 million of these systems still in use and J&S are selling even more. A lot of large house use forced air & heat recovery.

Add a heat recovery unit in the loft and then it is a Heat Recovery Unit, which has an eco tag.

[David Hansen]

On Tue, 6 Feb 2007 16:48:05 -0000 someone who may be "Doctor Drivel" wrote this:-

Excellent, proof by assertion.

Using what criteria?

For example, if the criteria is the size of the pipes/ducts carrying the heat then a wet system will always beat an air system.

[Doctor Drivel]

"Probably" is the word. usually they are "better" than wet systems.

How much was the air handling unit? He would have needed some ducting to complete the installation in the cupboard. These are good when using a high flow combi. Just set the combi on full CH temp and easy from then.

On the air handling unit it is best to have a modulating Valve to keep the discharge temperature stable (say 20-21C). Local controllers can modulate the louvers on each room. Then the controllers can be brought to a central time control and you can zone up the house to suit - pick your zone. The controller can all be in one place and just have temperature sensors in the return duct of each room . No stat or whatnot on the walls, yet precise temperature control . Simple and highly effective.

[Doctor Drivel]

Thank you.

Me. Knowing more about it than anyone here.

That is not the criteria here. In a renovation or new house ductwork can be designed into the fabric.

[Doctor Drivel]

TOTAL NONSENSE!!!

One based on working and knowing about these things, which you clearly know sweet FA about.

[MATTHEW.SWALE]

Thanks all, this has been very helpful.

[David Hansen]

On Tue, 6 Feb 2007 17:15:58 -0000 someone who may be "Doctor Drivel" wrote this:-

You know what everyone else here knows? Fascinating.

An expert is someone who knows how little they know about something. Someone who thinks that they know a lot about something is not an expert.

[Andrew Mawson]

Matt,

I have a couple of flats I let out with Halcyon 35 warm air systems that must be a similar vintage to yours. If anything goes wrong with them, they are a pain, as very few 'heating engineers' or plumbers know their way arround these systems. Almost every time I have had my corgi chap to site and held his hand and shown him the fault, and repaired it under his watchful eye, or if on the gas side shown him what to do. They are extremely simple, with the usual series control loop and internal thermostats, all at 24v driving a standard gas valve. One two occassions in the last 10 years 'professionals' have thrown up their hands unable to source spares (a gas valve and a fan motor) both of which I found and bought for them within 24 hours. I would have changed them to a conventional wet system purely to avoid the 'I don't understand' syndrome, but the flat layouts down lend themselves to radiators.

AWEM

[meow2222]

The presence of asbestos is not normally considered a reason why an appliance must be replaced. It is standard industrial policy where replacement is expensive to leave asbestos in place and coat it with some form of sealant to prevent any possible fibre release.

There are 3 ways asbestos are used:

1. asbestos cement - fibres are bonded in place, so do not normally release.
2. woven asbestos - can be replaced with fibreglass
3. loose asbestos wool - can be replaced with fibreglass or rockwool.

I would not assume that just because some company tells you you must give them a few grand that they are really correct about that.

NT

[John Stumbles]

AIUI warm-air 'boilers' is a separate competence from water-heating boilers so most CORGI registered engineers who have their 'boilers' certification are not qualified to work on warm air systems. (There are obviously different issues such as that leaks of combustion products are far more liable to be deadly in warm-air units since the combustion gases are likely to be distributed around the living areas.)