You should EARN your trophy

[micky]

Isn't it terrible when they have some sport and every kid gets a trophy. It teaches them all the wrong lessons.

James Harrison is by far not the first top point out this problem, and he's right. "When he found out his sons were given such trophies, he demanded that they be sent back. Harrison believes that a trophy should be something you earn by being the best, not something you receive just for trying."

'While I am very proud of my boys for everything they do and will encourage them till the day I die, these trophies will be given back until they EARN a real trophy. I?m sorry I?m not sorry for believing that everything in life should be earned and I?m not about to raise two boys to be men by making them believe that they are entitled to something just because they tried their best...cause sometimes your best is not enough, and that should drive you to want to do better...not cry and whine until somebody gives you something to shut u up and keep you happy"

And you know, he's right.

But who else does this?

Why it's the US Armed Forces.

United States service medals of the World Wars are U.S. military medals which were created solely for recognizing service in the First World War and World War II. (I've only explained a few of them, but others are simlar.)

American Defense Service Medal The medal was intended to recognize those military service members who had served on active duty between September 8, 1939 and December 7,

1941. Women's Army Corps Service Medal

Campaign medals American Campaign Medal European-African-Middle Eastern Campaign Medal Asiatic-Pacific Campaign Medal

Occupation medals Army of Occupation of Germany Medal Army of Occupation Medal Navy Occupation Service Medal "Awarded to commemorate the services of Navy, Marine Corps and Coast Guard personnel in the occupation of certain territories of the enemies of the U.S. during World War II"[2] and recognized those personnel who participated in the European and Asian occupation forces during, and following World War II. The medal was also bestowed to personnel who performed duty in West Berlin between 1945 and 1990. Medal for Humane Action The medal recognizes those military service members who performed extended duty in support of the Berlin Airlift.

Victory medals World War I Victory Medal World War II Victory Medal The medal was awarded to any member of the United States military, including members of the armed forces of the Government of the Philippine Islands, who served on active duty, or as a reservist, between December 7, 1941 and December 31, 1946

Then there's the Korean Service Medal, awarded for military service within territorial limits or service that directly supported the military efforts in Korea.

And the Korea Defense Service Medal, first created in 2002 when it was signed into law by President George W. Bush, authorized for those members of the United States Armed Forces who have served duty in South Korea after the signing of the Korean Armistice Agreement in support of the defense of the Republic of Korea. To qualify for the KDSM, a service member must have served at least thirty consecutive days in the Korean theater. The medal is also granted for 60 non-consecutive days of service which includes reservists on annual training in Korea.

And of course the Good Conduct Medal, either Army, Navy, Marine Corps, Air Force. or Coast Guard

The Good Conduct Medal is one of the oldest military awards of the United States Armed Forces. The U.S. Navy's variant of the Good Conduct Medal was established in 1869, the Marine Corps version in 1896, the Coast Guard version in 1923, the Army version in 1941, and the Air Force version in 1963; the Air Force Good Conduct Medal was discontinued from February 2006 to February 2009. The medal is awarded to any active-duty enlisted member of the United States military who completes three consecutive years of "honorable and faithful service". During times of war, the Good Conduct Medal may be awarded for one year of faithful service.

So even in 1869, sailors would get a medal just for showing good conduct!

And I'm pretty sure I've left out some. If you don't have one you're entitled to, go to webpages like

In fact some say that when Jacob's 12 sons went off to summer camp, they got trophies just for being on the archery team, even if they couldn't shoot worth a darn. (FWIW, only 6 could go at one time because there were chores to do at home.)

So I guess those yuppie parents who want their little darlings to get a trophy just for showing up have a long string of examples to go by.

[J Burns]

The legendary Smedley Butler was proud of the 15 service medals he'd earned but not of his two medals for valor, both being the Medal of Honor. He tried to return them, saying he'd done nothing to earn them. Medals for valor aren't earned.

Other generals kept General Butler out of WWI. He arrived after the Armistice and found Marines sleeping literally in mud in winter. Generals who love the public relations of distributing medals for valor may well treat their troops that way. General Butler walked four miles to a port, then four miles back up the hill carrying a board large enough for a man to sleep on. He said there were others where that came from. Thus these veterans did not die of sickness in the mud.

[Snuffy "Hub Cap" McKinney]

No, you and that moron father are missing the point. The participated and get an award for participating -- not for finished 1st place. What happens if one of the others who participated never gets another award.

Too much emphasis on "winning" -- participating is the first step and should be encouraged.

STUPID FATHER in that case.

[Snuffy "Hub Cap" McKinney]

Please label this off-topic stuff "OT."

[Don Y]

Please learn to trim the superfluous stuff from your replies!

[micky]

With a name like Smedley Butler, I wasn't sure if you were serious, but he was real.. Both his father and his mother's father were congressmen!

Smedley is the kind of first name that was once a family name, usually on the mother's side. But even his grandather had a first name of Smedley, so that distinguished ancestor would have been farther back than him.

He wrote a book called _War is a racket_ IIRC, "is a racket" was a phrase my mother or older brother used a lot. It's less popular now. Scam is the word used now, I guess. Is that related to scheme?

There's a lot more to read about General Butler but I wanted to post now.

BTW, I'm not against these service medals, and of course there are big differences between army service and children's baseball. for example, but I didn't see the parallels either until a few days ago. Since I don't have kids, I don't have to decide how I feel about their trophies and details matter. I suspect I'm not against trophies for everyone if the words that go with them are honest, make sense, don't try to convey something false or stupid. And that not every team or competition does this.

The only trophy I got during public school days was Most Improved, in bowling, and I figured I was most improved since I started knowing nothing, and I did pretty well by the end of the year in the league. I don't remember much of a cermony if any at all, but I think maybe there were 5 trophies given to 4 or 5 of the 12 or 24 boys. . Best team record (2 of those), best score, best season average, mine, and maybe one or two others.

[micky]

Yes, I usually do. Sorry.

[Stormin Mormon]

Please bottom post, and trim excess trailing text.

[Snuffy "Hub Cap" McKinney]

Sorry about the top-posting, no offense to anyone, etc.

I was pissed because the media is portraying the incident where the father took awards away from children as acceptable behavior, when it actually could have a long-lasting negative impact on the development of the self-esteem in his kids, and any other kids who also got a participation award.

It's like those bumper stickers - my kid is student of the month, etc.... Everyone knows that in the long run, this is not a big deal. But when the kid sees that sticker on his parent's car, the fact that everybody in the school gets one sooner or later, it doesn't make any difference to him/her. It's something positive for that one period of time.

This is about participating, striving, etc.... "winning" is not mentioned...

".... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat."

From T. Roosevelt, "Citizenship In A Republic," 1910

pdf

..... but you didn't win, so I'm taking your award back.... -- an obscure athlete to his kids.

[micky]

Bwaaahh. But but but I participated.

[Oren]

...and earn a participation trophy, asshole!

[Oren]

Yes, I usually do. Sorry.

You'll be a lot sorrier if you do it again.

[micky]

It depends on whether he was yelling at them or complaining to them about the system. In his public statement he includes "'While I am very proud of my boys for everything they do and will encourage them till the day I die," and I'm ready to presume he sounded like that when he talked to them.

It also depends on how old they are, but at any age, I think if a parent does something like this nicely, and with an explanation, even one they don't understand, the kids will be fine.

[Snuffy "Hub Cap" McKinney]

father took awards away from children as acceptable behavior, when it actually could have a long-lasting negative impact on the development of the self-esteem in his kids, and any other kids who also got a participation award.

No. It's stupid to take an award back from anyone for any reason, unless that awardee did something unethical.

The man may be a good father otherwise, but he screwed up and should not be held up by the "media" or anyone else as having done something good.

Sorry, the man was wrong and should apologize to all the kids who got that award.

etc.... Everyone knows that in the long run, this is not a big deal. But when the kid sees that sticker on his parent's car, the fact that everybody in the school gets one sooner or later, it doesn't make any difference to him/her. It's something positive for that one period of time.

whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat."

obscure athlete to his kids.

[Stormin Mormon]

I think that the big damage to self esteem is when adults lie to them, and cheat them out of real accomplishment. Trophies are for those who do real work, and real things. Kids can see through the lies and phony plastic crap that you appear to propose.

[J Burns]

I was excluded from extracurricular activities in high school. Our first week in 10th grade, the principal announced over homeroom loudspeakers that we could join the International Relations Club at a certain time and place. Approximately 15 sophomore boys showed up. The teacher took our names and said we'd elect officers the following week.

I didn't run for president because Larry was ideal. He was very well read on 20th Century History, used English exceptionally well, and showed class in dealing with classmates. He was elected unanimously. I was elected secretary, unanimously.

The teacher then said there would be no more meetings. For the next three years, I heard nothing about it, except that my yearbook gave me credit for membership one year. I assumed it was extinct.

Not long ago, I found the yearbooks archived online. I was credited for being in IRC in my senior year, not my sophomore year. I hadn't thought the club existed in my senior year, but I was identified in a group photo. Was I crazy? The faces are indistinct, but the guy identified as me combed his hair left, unlike all the other boys. I always combed my hair right.

Whoever captioned the photo must have been in the club. This was a deliberate lie, but why?

The club had been active in my sophomore year, but only 3 members were sophomores. Their fathers were in management or professions. Except for me, the dozen of us who had been excluded had fathers in labor. That included Larry. I must have been excluded for another reason. My father was a professional, and my three sisters were accepted.

One sister spoke often of the IRC when I was in 9th grade. She never mentioned it when after I joined and was told it had disbanded, although she continued to be active. One of the three who had been accepted ate lunch with Larry and me every day for the next three years. Another ate lunch with us frequently. Neither ever mentioned the club, although they'd elected us officers. According to yearbooks, it had a high profile in the school and the community. In fact, it was as secret as the KKK.

Larry's senior listing said he had been a member in our sophomore year, but past yearbooks showed he hadn't. He was editor of our yearbook, so he would have discovered that in fact the club had been active, and friends hadn't told him. They would have said they thought he'd quit. I think claiming I'd been a member in my senior year was a way to fool him, as if I'd quit but joined two years later.

That was my only extracurricular listing because I never knew how to join any other activities. Ostensibly, they were open to all. In fact, they seem to have operated by private invitation only. The typical student was credited with about 4 activities. About 10% had lots, more than they could actually have engaged in. About 20%, mostly vocational students, had none. I could vouch for many. They were interested, would have fit in, and didn't have after-school jobs. I guess they weren't invited.

It was a corrupt system for officials to give some students preferred status for college admission. In doing so, they gave other students the appearance of being loners. Calling Lee Oswald a loner was supposed to prove he shot Kennedy. The captain of his Marine unit said to the contrary, he was friendly and popular.

We had only one election, where 4 boys ran for president of the senior class. In reviewing the yearbook, I learned that of a class of 240, 60 had credits for 93 elected offices, mostly from homeroom elections. In those three years, I never saw a homeroom election. Some winners were good friends of mine. I would certainly remember.

The yearbook used to have 14 categories of superlatives, each awarded to a boy and a girl. For my class, it was expanded to 21 categories, with runners-up, meaning 84 out of 240 could be superlatives. They may have been chosen most such-and-such, but the class didn't choose them. There was no election. The funniest pick was the most intelligent boy. No student would have considered him. He'd flunked 3rd grade and would have flunked again if sent back. He was the slowest to catch on to any new idea. He was, however, the most pretentious and the biggest apple polisher. The teacher who appointed him must have considered that intelligence.

My school was in the business of doling out fake self-esteem, and they did it at the expense of others. I'll bet it went on across the country.

Okinawa was my first stop coming from Vietnam. We were given a little spending money. I got my first haircut in months. The next day at inspection, a lieutenant asked, "Where are your ribbons?"

"I didn't have any money to buy them."

As he berated me, I managed not to snicker. I didn't know the Marines who were inspected with me, but they expressed support when he left. Officers were usually the kind of boys who got lots of credits in their high-school yearbooks, so they were frantic for shirt baubles in the Marines. Not me. If you give a boy and a girl each money in a departments store, the girl may buy ribbons, but the boy will be more interested in things like a pocket radio. That's what I'd bought.

[Tekkie®]

Oren posted for all of us...

That eternal september server is very vicious and I had problems until I just blocked it everywhere.

[ChairMan]

As about as the same result reporting spam to google Seems as though a lot of people are having a hard time understanding things these days. i can't believe some of the people that have been sucked into the crossposting trolls

[J Burns]

I wish I could block it. Can I do it with Thunderbird?