I live in an economically depressed area of the NE US where a decentold six-room home averages 80K and up.I found a very old but apparently well-maintained FSBO bungalow-stylehome that literally can't be inspected by a home inspector. There areseveral reasons for this.1) The kitchen, bath, and laundry room are in the cellar. This isbecause the (large) lot the bungalow is on is on a hillside. The"upper" story is actually the story with the door and mailbox that facethe street. On the lower floor, new tile flooring, a new (raised)bath, and inexpensive berber carpet on the (raised) dining area make itimpossible to see the subflooring and/or concrete and/or stone thismajor part of the living area rests on.2) The square footage of the home is so small that the upper story (orstreet-level floor) has no access at all to the crawl-space attic. Theroof is not architectural but shows no stain, and there are new vinylsoffits and gutters.3) The interior of the home is entirely clad in cheapo compositepanelling. I asked the seller if a pest or home-inspector would beallowed to remove a piece of the panelling in an unobtrusive part ofthe home, perhaps the laundry room in the crevice at the front of thelower/cellar. He said no.4) The breaker box is 25 years old--an I.T.E. I noticed what seemedan unusual amount of outlets for a home this size and this age. Therewere all grounded, but the wiring is all hidden behind the panellingand/or dropped ceilings.5) This FSBO seller does not realize that I know he owns a major stripmall in a well-trafficked, high-income area. He also does not knowthat I'm aware he's affluent. He will not give me his home address,but because our local newspaper makes public the property tax recordsfor the county (something I think is an invitation to disaster in thewrong hands, BTW), through a little sleuthing I was able to find outwho "(Blank) + (Blank) Realty" really is.enterpreneur purchased this home as a Fannie Mae foreclosure in Augustfor...

I've only bought two houses in my life, and based only on that, I'm not sure removing pieces of paneling is something that's normally done as part of an inspection, unless you've got a very cooperative seller. There are some mysteries you just have to discover after you've bought a house.BUT: If this seller won't even keep an appointment with your electrician, I'd be suspicious, or at least prepared to bargain very heavily. Ask the electrician this question: "If this were YOUR house, and you had plenty of time & extra money to rip out everything & start from scratch, what would you do here? And, what would that job be worth if you were doing it for me?" Subtract that from the selling price.Pay a roofer to at least climb up top and check out the shingles.Measure the rooms (including ceiling height) where you think there might be trouble with the walls. Call a contractor and ask "If I tore the walls out down to the beams, what would it cost to sheetrock the room, assuming no unusual...

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Mark Cato 20 years ago

I included an overview of know and tube below. While we've done quite a lot of electrical work at our house, we still have a bit of active knob and tube wiring. We made certain to have our electrician inspect all visible portions. Speaking from experience, it can be hard to insure a home with knob and tube wiring.

From

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Knob and Tube The earliest standardized method of wiring in buildings, from about 1880 to the 1940s, was single cloth-insulated copper conductors run across interior walls or within ceiling cavities, passing through joist and stud drill-holes via protective porcelain insulating tubes, and supported along their length on nailed-down porcelain "knob" insulators. This system is known as "knob-and-tube" from the insulators used. Where conductors entered a wiring device such as a lamp or switch, they were protected by flexible cloth insulating sleeving. Wire splices in such installations were twisted for good mechanical strength, then soldered and wrapped with "friction" tape (asphalt saturated cloth), or made inside metal junction boxes.

Historically, the standards for installing electrical wiring were less stringent in the age of knob-and-tube wiring than they are today. Compared to modern electrical wiring standards, the main shortcomings of knob-and-tube era wiring are: knob-and-tube wiring never included a safety ground conductor; knob-and-tube wiring did not confine switching to the hot conductor; knob-and-tube wiring permitted the use of in-line-splices in walls without using an accessible junction box to contain the splice.

Older homes may have knob-and-tube wiring for all or part of their electrical system. Such wiring systems require replacement and modernization, as it is inadequate for modern levels of power use. Wiring may have been damaged by renovations done in the building, and insulation covering the wires may be brittle due to age or may be damaged by rodents or carelessness (for example, hanging objects off wiring running in accessible areas like basements).

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Mark Cato 20 years ago

Prices in Pittsburgh are very affordable, but $50,000 may be a bit misleading. As with anywhere, location, size and condition play a significant role. In my neighborhood, most homes are still going for under $100,000. In areas like Squirrel Hill, you'll find million-dollar homes (as well as more affordable homes). Areas that are experiencing a resurgence (such as Lawrenceville) have a range of prices, but are still generally cheap.

The cost of living is a very appealing aspect of Pittsburgh. When my wife and I bought our home, our monthly mortgage payment was lower than what we had been paying for rent (which wasn't a lot).

mark

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Banty 20 years ago

I've been reading this thread, but still maybe I missed it. But my question is - why are you looking at this house (I don't mean that in a snarky way.) Is it to live in? Do you like the style and layout, as unconventional as it may be? Do you plan to live in it for a long time? (If you like the layout and will be there for a very long time, forget about the next buyer - someone like *you* will come along..)

Because there is no perfect house (and, yes, I've buried more than ten thousand for a foundation fix for my house). If you're looking at older construction, which clearly you are, do you know what you really want, don't want to deal with, are OK to deal with? And how much to worry, or not worry, about getting it sold in the future?

Because some of these things seem a bit odd. For example, how often do you think electric would be totally updated? It's not very often unless there's a total remod or the system has become totally outmoded to the point of concerns about safety (like Al wiring). If 35 year old electric scares you, you'd have to walk away from every house built since 1970 unless it's been totally remodelled. Which not many houses built in 1970 are. Because frankly that's not really so old.

Do you have a good handle on what you want, what you are confortable dealing with, etc? I think you may be outsmarting yourself here trying to get everything 'right'.

Banty

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mm 20 years ago

Yes, of course. Maybe I misunderstood her. I mean I originally thought she was only talking about calling for things that clearly needed repairs. Although I guess even then, if they know the person doesn't own the house yet, they want to be paid. Seems fair. If the person actually bought the house and called them for the repair, they might apply the money previously paid.

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zxcvbob 20 years ago

Offer him 47k for it. When he cusses, offer about 50k. Then give him your phone number and walk away. ;-)

Best regards, Bob

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Tony Hwang 20 years ago

Hmmm, Bone and flesh. Is the bone sound? Flashy flesh does not mean much.

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