Wiring up switch w/pilot light...
When wiring up a switch that requires another wire back from the load to attach to the switch to power the pilot-light (illuminated when ON). Do I have to use #14 wire ? Or can I use something smaller like #20 bell wire as long as the jacket is rated at 600v ?
Any help is appreciated.
14, assuming it's a 15A circuit and that wire has to be part of the cable or inside the same conduit, etc. You can't just run another separate wire, even if it's 14 gauge.
The fuse or circuit breaker determines wire size, not the load. If a typical 15A circuit you need 14 ga.
The house is in the country and all wiring is Romex. I was shopping and found some 14-3 that was not that expensive. Didn't see anything that was 14-4. (conduit would have been nice) Can I run a 14-3 romex and 14-2 from the light ?
Use the appropriate AWG for the breaker and length of run. On a 15A circuit, AWG14 is the minimum AWG, it could be AWG12 for a long run. If the circuit is protected by a
20A breaker, AGW12 is the smallest size you can use.
Maybe we should back up and start from the beginning. If the switch powers the load and the load is on when the switch is on, then you would just need a neutral at the switch to power the pilot light. Is that the wire you need to run, because there is no neutral in the box with the switch? If that's the case, then you don't necessarily need the neutral to come from where the load is, it just needs to be the neutral for that circuit, which you might be able to re-wire from somewhere more convenient. How is it wired now, what runs from the switch to the load, etc?
For a switch pilot light? That would be one hell of a long run to need
12 gauge.If the circuit is protected by a
The switches are 3-way pilot. I need a neutral as well as a leg from the load. The real problem is that the current switch is in proximity to the light (and I don't want that one to go away), and the people living there can't easily walk the extra 50' to the switch. So they ask for a 2nd switch very close to the door, but from that door you would not be able to see if the light was illuminated or not. I suggested an switch w/pilot. Could use X10 or some other tech stuff, but that just confuses elderly, and in my experience they just don't use it or turn it off.
So I am looking at using 3-way switches w/5 screws: 1 line, 2 travelers, 1 neutral, 1 parallel to load (for illumination).
Thanks
Now you see why the code started requiring a neutral at all switching locations ;-)
The main issue I see with running 2 cables is the box fill at both ends. That is terminating a lot of wires. I assume this is a switch loop. (power feeds the box with the light and you are just taking a loop to the switch). One 14/3 should do it unless I am missing something here. Usually you only run an x/2 for a switch loop and now you need a neutral too for the light.
For a pilot light you CAN use lighter wire with it's own fuse. (not sure if it is addressed in current code but it's been done MANY times. And if the pilot is in the same box it's a non-issue anyway.
I like the idea of a switch-loop, I was thinking about it backwards. So if I run 14-3 from the light and I am adding another gang to the existing gang-box, I could use two wires from the 14-3 romex as the travelers, the 3rd as the load, connect the load to the illumination screw and get the neutral from one of the existing gangs (if its there) ? Again, if the existing switches are just switch loops, I may not find a neutral ? Would it be over the top to just tie the neutral (for illumination) from the switch to the ground and let it get its neutral that way ?
Thanks
The smallest "fixture wire" you can put on 15&20a circuits is 18ga. That can only go to loads that are limited by design, like a luminaire or an appliance. If you use smaller wire, you need supplemental O/C protection. "Fixture wire" is also limited to the load end of a branch circuit. If this is run with circuit conductors, it needs to be compliant with 240.4(D), The old 15a =14ga, 20a=12ga rule
That is technically illegal too. The neutral needs to be from the same circuit and run with the circuit conductors. If it was grabbed from another circuit, that is an AFCI trip for sure when someone tries to install them. If all the circuits in that gang box are on the same circuit, you probably could do it and I doubt the inductive heating (from a metal box) would burn the house down for a pilot light. BTW they do make 4 wire Romex but you need to go to a real electrical supply to get it. It will be called 14-2-2.
No matter how you cut it, I need 4 wires. I did finally find some 14-2-2 at some big-box stores, but min is 250', I probably only need about 70'. One vendor on Ebay has it in several lengths for about $0.80 / foot w/free shipping. Should I go looking for a better price ?
It's not a non-issue if the pilot light is in the same box, but there is no neutral or it's on a 3-way switch set-up like the OP has and you need to run a new wire.
Same no-go with using the ground as the neutral connection for the pilot light. I don't think there is an exception for a small LED light, just a couple of MA, is there?
My home depot has 12-2-14-2 in a single romex jacket (w/gnd). Some fancy switches require that, apparently.
What does the 250' roll work out to? That is a hint. You could also stop in to an electrical supply and see what they want for it, cut.
14-2-2 is 4 insulated conductors and a bare ground, what he needs. There used to be an exception in the U/L listings that allowed 0.5 MA to go down the ground but it disappeared sometime in the 90s. It might have been around NEC 96 when the NFPA reevaluated all of those ground/neutral exceptions like 3 wire dryer cords and 3 wire feeders to remote buildings. (The 96 ROP process was actually opened in 93)
Pretty much all new construction is going to use 12 gauge hot with maybe even 10 wire for a neutral.
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