There is no need to secure the new wire. Gravity will keep it from
floating off into space.
No inspector will see the new wire. It will be installed in the
privacy of ones own home. Noone will know. Should an inspector or
anyone else spouting nonsense about 'code' come into the home without
explicit permission, they will be killed, butchered and eaten.
Government intervention is NOT good.
Gravity won't keep it from jerking a connection loose when someone trips over
it while stowing something away in the attic.
Sometimes it is -- as when it deters or prevents my idiot neighbor from
following unsafe wiring practices that result in burning _my_ house down
_as_well_ when _his_ catches on fire. That's part of the price you pay for
living in a city: your freedom to be stupid and careless is limited by the
likelihood of inflicting the consequences of same upon your neighbors. If you
wish complete freedom to be stupid and careless, go live where you have no
neighbors who might be harmed.
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
How come we choose from just two people to run for president and 50 for Miss
Secure the wire in the attic, and everywhere it is accessable. (In the
attic, it is more of a trip hazard than a fire hazaard.) Use an outlet box
that has clamps where the cable enters the box. If you're running wire
inside an existing wall cavity, you don't need to secure it inside the wall
-- the clamp in the box is enough. Or do you suggest knocking a huge hole
in the wall so you can staple the wires?
Sorry, but your message just proved you are not competent to do your own
wiring. What you don't know can cause a fire and does so almost every day
in a home where someone did not know or did not care about code. Code is
there to keep you and others safe. Only a *&(& would ignore it.
I might add that if for some reason an inspector does come in and sees
such stuff, you may have a bigger problem than you expect. If your home
burns because of it, your insurance (do you have insurance?) can refuse to
While you at why not use 12 gage wire? According to the
copper institute larger wire is better for electronic
equipment to help reduce stray emissions. Don't know if
that is true, but I would always run a minimum of 12 gage
wire even when you are making a 15 A circuit, 10 gage for
any long runs. The cost difference is negligible but I
admit that working with 10 gage is a real pita.
The copper institute is trying to sell more copper. Does that give
you a hint?
Emissions from 60Hz in an ordinary household circuit is largely cancelled out
in _cable_ because the two wires run so close together, and the magnetic
flux is in opposite directions.
Secondly, the amount that "escapes" is going to be primarily dependent
on wire _spacing_, and a lesser extent the diameter of the wire.
The smaller the spacing/diameter the better. The wire spacing
in cable on 12ga is going to be insigificantly different than 14ga (because
the insulation thickness is the same), and if anything, would be _more_.
And of course, the copper diameter is _thicker_ in 12ga.
The real reason for using 12ga on a 15A circuit is to reduce voltage
drop on long circuits when you're running high current.
On a circuit dedicated to high fi gear, unless you have whomping humongous
amplifiers, it'd be overkill. And if you were doing that, you'd might as
well go with a 20A breaker.
[Except in Canada, where 20A general purpose circuits with ordinary
120V outlets is still illegal. But maybe not for long.]
If you have to go to 10ga for a 15A circuit, something's very strange...
For several hundred feet maybe. But not inside a house. Unless it's a REALLY
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
At least it's a somewhat "respectable" product plug. Unlike the "Oxygen free
Monster cable" they sell to unknowing audiophiles and kids installing "systems"
in their POS Toyotas and Hondas, where the speaker cables are larger than the
Not that the equipment wouldn't already include it, but wouldn't you think a
15a circuit might better protect Hi-Fi equip?
Problem with up-sizing wire in a residential, or sometimes commercial
enviroment, is dealing with the resulting box-fill requirements.
Yeah I know they want to sell copper. Don't have the
expertise to dispute their statment on using larger size
wire to reduce stray emissions, I just accepted it.
Yep, the main purpose of larger wire is to reduce voltage
drop, but it isn't several hundred feet before you need #10
wire. For a 3% voltage drop--just 80 feet reqiures #10
wire, i.e., 80 feet at 12 amps which is about a 1 hp motor.
Top line vacuums will pull that much. My Hoover is rated at
12 amps and it comes with a 25 foot or longer cord. Plugged
into a 15 A circuit, which is 14 ga will cause a dimming of
the lights when the motor starts but the lights are still
dim somewhat when it runs. I haven't checked the voltage on
the circuit with a meter yet. But that means that there is
a waste of efficiency and possibly a shorter life for the
There is no reason to use the standard #14 wire except that
it is a few buck cheaper and it is easier to work with.
Circuits in many houses are longer that 80 feet from the
pannel to a receptacle, so a wire heavier than #14 makes
sense if that circuit is going to be loaded up, especially
with a large motor (read vacuum cleaner). Forget the idea
of protecting the wire, which is what the standards do, size
the wire to protect the appliances and to increase
efficiency (read reduce electricity cost).
I just used the online calculator that some put in a reply.
You're right about the NEC, but I'm not concerned about the
minimum, I want something better. And since power tools may
have their own extensions (e.g., the vacuum), figuring just
panel to receptacle isn't very conservative for a motor.
here isn't much I can do about the circuit that show lamp
dimming. All the connections at the receptacle boxes and
the panel appear ok (and I don't have any aluminum wire), so
it appears to just be a problem with wire size and length.
You're right on the efficiency, but who knows how long that
circuit will be dedicated to powering just an entertainment
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