Is this right for wiring?
14 gauge with 2 wires for lights and small appliances power outlets to
a 20 amp breaker
12 gauge with 3 wires for the fridge, microwave, diswaher to a 20 AMP
8 gauge with 3 wires for the stove top, oven, dryer to a 40 Amp breaker
New panel size - do I add up the number of circuits needed and their
stove 40AMP + oven 40+ dryer 40+ light circuit 20 + small appliances
20+ fridge 20+ diswasher microwave garbage disposal 20 for a total of
200 AMP box needed? OR can I combine the stope top and oven for a
total of 160???
Thanks for your help
get a 200 amp new main with the maximum nuber of breaker slots
available. service entrance cable and meter can must be replaced when
upgrading to larger amp main panel
14 gauge wire is for 15 amps max
12 gauge for 20 amp max
kitchen outlet circuits must be GFCI protected.
Thank you, just to clarify this would be a third breaker panel for a
second kitchen. The main one upstairs is already full and this area is
running off a smaller older breaker panel.
Do I need 40 Amps for the stove and oven?
Do lights and power outlets run on 15 or 20 AMPS?
The lights in there now are old tube and knob going to and old breaker
that has about 50 AMPS in it and a fan heater blows the circuit. I was
going to rewire this area off that old breaker.
No they don't. The one for the fridge *should not* be protected. If
you want to be a stickler about it, use a simplex receptacle for the
fridge to indicate that it's a dedicated outlet.
The 110V outlet behind the stove (it's there in case you want to install
a gas stove) would not need to be protected. Same for an outlet for a
built-in microwave. And that wall outlet way over there on the opposite
wall, by the breakfast area.
Bob I don't want to start the pissing contest but these are not
serving the counter top. You are thinking about "small appliance
circuits". You are right, they can serve stove igniters and fridges
without GFCI. It could also be the wall plugs in the dining room.
12 or 14 gauge wire for lights and convenience outlets. 14 gauge wire
requires a 15A breaker. You can use a 20A or a 15A for #12 wire. (I
use #14 wire and 15A breakers for lighting circuits and for light-duty
but dedicated outlets, and I use #12 wire and 20A breakers for all
convenience outlets and appliance outlets.
You need at least two 20A circuits for the kitchen.
Yes, although #6 Aluminum might be cheaper if it's a long run.
The dryer should probably be on a 30A circuit rather than 40A, and can
use #10 wire.
No. there are calculations in the back of the code book that tell you
the minimum service size.
There's a "tap rule" that lets you combine the stove and oven on one
circuit, I don't remember the details; it's very specific, but it will
save you some money on big copper wire. (My pain pills for my bad back
just kicked in and I don't trust my memory.)
With an electric stove and electric dryer (what about your water
heater?) you might need more than a 100A panel. You certainly don't
need a 200A, although you might want a 200A to give you lots of room for
expansion. Take a look at the 125A panels that I think are made for
mobile homes. 125A is a nice size, imho. I installed a 150A when I
upgraded the service in my old house, but the load calculations said I
only needed a 70A service. (that was before I added the shop w/ air
compressor and welder.)
I use aluminum wire for most things over 30 amps, and copper for
everything else. (I use copper for the big stuff too if it's a short run.)
Hope this helps!
Since the breaker panel part of it scares me but I have been
"apprentice" to a lot of wiring installation for outlets, smoke
detectors and lights. I think I can install all the wiring back to
where the panel goes and then call in an expert for the mains to panel
installation. My budget doesn't give me any other option. Maybe an
electrician would not be willing to do that though.
The water heater is on the other side of the house and has gas. There
is gas in the room but I was given the electric stove top and oven and
can't afford gas appliances.
I was given the heater unit and all the cedar wood for a sauna too that
someone tore out that I thought about sticking in the basement - any
idea how much power that takes or if it would be 110 or 220?
I hope your back feels better there is nothing worse than back pain
I know to never GFCI a fridge provided the outlet is behind the fridge
so it cant be used for anything else.
Honestly I think you should get a pros opinion before you begin as to
the capacity of your main panel to handle the new sub panel.
sadly copper price has skyrocketed today:( because of this it might be
cheaper to buy a gas stove at a second hand shop and gas dryer too.
the electric dryers cost to operate is going to kill you, same for
electric hot water tanks, low capacity and high operating expense
Most of this has been answered, but ...
Don't major appliances still have spec plates? On which things
like max amperage draw are indicated? Have you looked for these?
Ooooops. This complicates matters aplenty.
Do you comtemplate a new elec. service entrance (pig-tails, etc)
for a new box or a new box that is actually to be a sub-box or ???
Start with the specs on the appliance(s).
LIte duty circuits (ie lights, radios, etc) are generally
No comprehendere, senor.
Then I suspect you are in trouble.
Unless maybe he's your brother-in-law or somesuch ...
Seriously, if you have trouble estimating amp loads for
your circuitry, it *sounds* like you are "out of your
You can afford a 2nd kitchen but not an electrician?
Beware, my friend, for the indications are that you are
about to shoot your po' self in the foot? :-)
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