I never used any of these, but they make them in green, white and
black.
http://www.idealindustries.ca/products/wire_termination/twist-on/term-a-nut_grounding.php
no, tried that. two reasons. wiring is 14 Awg and a b**** to fuss
with, usually marginally too short, and the GND wire appears to be
oriented downward.
Unfortunately, the minute I post a question, the solution becomes
evident. After measuring the voltages on the switch as I operated
several; I found the switch is a simple X reversal. so I only had to
swap the two 'input' lines and got the effect I wanted.
The pair that connects the 3way and 4way switches in series are called
"travelers" and you can install an unlimited number of 4way switches on
the pair. When I worked on a Core of Engineers job some years ago, I had
to explain and illustrate the operation of 3 and 4way switches to my
electrical foreman and superintendent because they were mystified by
their operation. So don't feel bad if you had a problem with them. ^_^
TDD
On Jun 18, 9:32 am, The Daring Dufas <the-daring-du...@stinky-
finger.net> wrote:
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Maybe you could explain what the issue is that Robert
seems to be having? I don't get it. He seems to be
saying that he wants up to be on and down to be off,
or vice-versa, for at least some of the switches. From my
experience with 3 way and 4 way, that isn't possible.
The switch position for on depends on the position of
the other switch or switches.
Does something change when you get to 5 way, or is he
tilting at windmills? Even more mysterious, in his
recent post he says he rewired it and solved the issue?
My guess is that to achieve what he wants is impossilbe
with conventional toggle switches. Or else I'm not
understanding the issue.
On Tuesday, June 18, 2013 9:45:48 AM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:
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I believe he wants the lights to be off when all the switches are in the do
wn position. Normally can be downe by just removing the switch and turning
it 180deg and putting it back in the box. But it sounds like his wires ar
e a bit short for that.
Frankly there is not much point to it anyway as the whole reason you have m
ultiple switches is so you can turn the lights on or off from any of the lo
cations. You enter the hall at one end in the dark so you turn the light o
n. When you exit the other end you turn the light off. Now you have two s
witches in the up position but the lights are off.
down position. Normally can be downe by just removing the switch and tur
ning it 180deg and putting it back in the box. But it sounds like his wi
res are a bit short for that.
multiple switches is so you can turn the lights on or off from any of the
locations. You enter the hall at one end in the dark so you turn the lig
ht on. When you exit the other end you turn the light off. Now you ha
ve two switches in the up position but the lights are off.- Hide quoted tex
t -
I agree completely with the last part of what you said.
So, I still don't understand the talk about re-wiring,
turning switches upside down, etc. I think we agree it
would only "fix" the problem until another switch position
was changed.
Robert:
I'm thinking that your best bet might be to simply replace your 4 way
switches with ones that have either lighted toggles or toggles of a
different colour than the rest of the switches in each "bank" of
switches. That will at least set them apart visually, so you're brain
recognizes that those switches are different, and the toggle being in
the up position doesn't mean that anything is "ON".
I'm not familiar with 4 way switches, but with 3 way switches there
really is no "OFF" position like you have with ordinary switches. With
3 way switches, you have two different "ON" positions where the switch
sends power down one conductor or another depending on the toggle
position, but no "OFF" position. But, in that case, toggle down doesn't
mean the light is off since whether or not electricity flows depends on
the position of BOTH three way switches, not just the position of one
three way switch.
The second 4-way circuit is kind of like a California 3-way with a 4-way
switch added. A California 3-way is very useful in very limited
applications. Harry's circuit does not have the useful features of a
California 3-way.
A simple 3-way is easy to troubleshoot. IMHO this is a monstrosity that
is difficult to troubleshoot and has no advantages over a simple 3-way.
4way switches are installed anywhere on the traveler pair between the
two 3way switches. You need two 3way switches to make a circuit with the
power coming in at one 3way switch and the fixture connected at the
other 3way switch. The position of the toggle on one 3way switch feeds
power to or selects which wire in the traveler pair the fixture is
connected to. 4way switches can be installed anywhere on the traveler
pair between the two 3way switches since the 4way switch is like an X
across the pair and swaps the feed from one wire in the pair to the
other wire in the pair. I found an easy to understand illustrated web
page that will help you. ^_^
http://users.wfu.edu/matthews/courses/p230/switches.html
TDD
On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 07:10:53 -0700 (PDT), " snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net"
I suspect he wants both switches "same" to mean "off", so they can
both be down when off -- presumably if he's in a situation where he's
about to turn the light off and end up with them both up, he'd run
over and flip the other one instead. Sort of defeats the purpose of
the 3/4-way switches, but to each his own; my wife made me flip one of
our 3-ways because it bugged her that "different" was off, so you
could never have both down with the light off. She can deal with the
fact that "on" requires one up and one down (which will be true for OP
also), but this light isn't on very often.
Josh
When we lived in Europe courtesy of Uncle Sam all our switches were push bu
ttons that toggled a change of state relay. There seemed to be no limit to
the number of switches. It was very convenient to be able to turn the bed
room light on from the door, and off from the bed, and on from the desk, et
c.
When you pressed the switch you heard a big clunk from the panel in the hal
lway.
On Tuesday, June 18, 2013 10:10:53 AM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:
It's not so complicated as you all are making it.
He simply wants the lights to be OFF when all four switches are in the down
position.
In other words, if you run down the hall and flip all four switches to the down
position, the lights will always end up OFF.
With an even number of switches, you will always have an even number of switches
in a certain position with the lights off. Either four down, two down, or four
up.
On Tuesday, June 18, 2013 3:35:16 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:
I never saw him saying anything even close to that. And
I can't imagine that it would make much sense. He said he
had 4 switches controlling a hallway light. Why on earth
would you need to run down the hall and check each switch?
All you need do is look if the light is on or off and then
hit the one switch located where you are exiting the hall.
switches in a certain position with the lights off. Either four down, two down,
or four up.
Which of course means you can't do what he wants to do.
On Wednesday, June 19, 2013 10:08:56 AM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:
Obviously you weren't reading carefully because that's EXACTLY what he said.
Nobody's checking each switch. He just wants the "home position" to be all four
switches DOWN, and light OFF. It's a form of OCD.
switches in a certain position with the lights off. Either four down, two down,
or four up.
Yes, he can. All he wants is, "All four switches DOWN, lights OFF."
What you keep harping on and on about is "All four switches MUST be down for the
lights to be OFF." That is not what he wants.
Clearly he was able to achieve it because he replied and stated such. All it
required was swapping the wires on the first switch.
On Wednesday, June 19, 2013 2:36:07 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:
Then you should be able to provide the excerpt where he says EXACTLY that. Funny
thing. You haven't.
And assuming it's true, what good does it do again?
If you only look at one or two switches, you still
don't know that the light is on or off. Doug tried
to make that point to you as well. So, you
have to walk around to check at least 3 switches. He's
so concerned, he'd probably check all 4. Does that
make any sense as opposed to just looking at the
hallway light to see if it's on or off? I've yet
to see a 3 way, 4 way, hallway light where whether
the light was on or off was not easily determinable
from each switch. That's kind of the whole purpose,
so that you can turn the light for that area on
or off from the various areas it serves.
Thanks for the diagnosis. You've confirmed that what he's
trying to do makes no sense.
switches in a certain position with the lights off. Either four down, two down,
or four up.
Seems I'm not the only one that interpreted it that way.
I hope he's happy now. When leaving the hallway, he can
either go check 3 switches to make sure they are down and
the light is off. Me, I'd just look at the light as I'm
exiting the hallway. Good grief!
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