Wiring for multiple control [4 switches control one set of lights] light switch !!!

[harry]

This is how they are wired. Beware, different terminology to USA.

[harry]

It's not possible with the conventional method of having more then two switches. Even with just two switches it's possible to have the light on with both switches up or down

I know how it all works but I don't know the terminology used in the US.

[The Daring Dufas]

4way switches are installed anywhere on the traveler pair between the two 3way switches. You need two 3way switches to make a circuit with the power coming in at one 3way switch and the fixture connected at the other 3way switch. The position of the toggle on one 3way switch feeds power to or selects which wire in the traveler pair the fixture is connected to. 4way switches can be installed anywhere on the traveler pair between the two 3way switches since the 4way switch is like an X across the pair and swaps the feed from one wire in the pair to the other wire in the pair. I found an easy to understand illustrated web page that will help you. ^_^

TDD

[Josh]

I suspect he wants both switches "same" to mean "off", so they can both be down when off -- presumably if he's in a situation where he's about to turn the light off and end up with them both up, he'd run over and flip the other one instead. Sort of defeats the purpose of the 3/4-way switches, but to each his own; my wife made me flip one of our 3-ways because it bugged her that "different" was off, so you could never have both down with the light off. She can deal with the fact that "on" requires one up and one down (which will be true for OP also), but this light isn't on very often.

Josh

[TimR]

When we lived in Europe courtesy of Uncle Sam all our switches were push bu ttons that toggled a change of state relay. There seemed to be no limit to the number of switches. It was very convenient to be able to turn the bed room light on from the door, and off from the bed, and on from the desk, et c.

When you pressed the switch you heard a big clunk from the panel in the hal lway.

[dennisgauge]

It's not so complicated as you all are making it.

He simply wants the lights to be OFF when all four switches are in the down position.

In other words, if you run down the hall and flip all four switches to the down position, the lights will always end up OFF.

With an even number of switches, you will always have an even number of switches in a certain position with the lights off. Either four down, two down, or four up.

[trader4]

down position. Normally can be downe by just removing the switch and turni ng it 180deg and putting it back in the box.

No, it can't be done. Have you used a multi-way switch, eg 3-way? That uses just two switches, but the system AFAIK is the same as with his 5 way. With a 3-way, with switch A, whether the light is on or off when switch A is up or down depends on the position of switch B. You can turn them upside down all you want, it does not change that. As soon as someone moves switch B, then the operation of switch A reverses again.

But it sounds like his wires are a bit short for that.

multiple switches is so you can turn the lights on or off from any of the locations. You enter the hall at one end in the dark so you turn the light on. When you exit the other end you turn the light off. Now you have two switches in the up position but the lights are off.

[trader4]

down position, the lights will always end up OFF.

I never saw him saying anything even close to that. And I can't imagine that it would make much sense. He said he had 4 switches controlling a hallway light. Why on earth would you need to run down the hall and check each switch? All you need do is look if the light is on or off and then hit the one switch located where you are exiting the hall.

switches in a certain position with the lights off. Either four down, two down, or four up.

Which of course means you can't do what he wants to do.

[bud--]

Actually switch lights up with the lights on.

Another variation of pilot light at the switch uses a neon light between the travelers. A neon light is used because it operates at very low current. Switched lights probably have to be incandescent. Switch lights up when the lights off. I believe these are available in 3-way and 4-way switches.

Probably still available is a low voltage relay system that uses center off switches with momentary up for on and down for off.

There was also a low voltage scheme with a push button and a relay that changed state, as in TimR's post.

[bud--]

The second 4-way circuit is kind of like a California 3-way with a 4-way switch added. A California 3-way is very useful in very limited applications. Harry's circuit does not have the useful features of a California 3-way.

A simple 3-way is easy to troubleshoot. IMHO this is a monstrosity that is difficult to troubleshoot and has no advantages over a simple 3-way.

[Robert Macy]

On Jun 19, 6:33 am, bud-- wrote:

I've been pondering the idea of some relay logic combined and the 'main' ON/OFF relay in the attic. Sounds great. Except, I'm back to the problem of turning ON/OFF only the correct switch when faced with a bank of four switches. Worse, sometimes the light I want to turn off isn't even controlled by this rack of switches. Oh, well, at least if I can go around, turn all the switches to a known OFF position, then in the middle of the night when I wish to turn off the light I just turned on, it's obvious, because that light switch is the only light switch in the whole rack that is in what looks like ON. Thus, I don't turn ON/OFF a whole series looking to turn off that single light. [Yeah, I know, memorize them, but this house is large, has lots of multi switch panels, and sommme light swtich positions in the rack are either NOT consistent, or plainly wrong location - which I' in the process of changing.] hmmm, I'd need a small indicator that illuminates at night when the light is OFF to show you the switch to turn ON. but if another switch turn on the light... maybe two indicators at each switch. arggg! wait, if the indicator is OFF when the light is ON, that will suffice. Just hit the switch that is NOT lit and the light goes out and of course the indicator then comes ON. Nice feature. Although I'm not a fan of tiny little light dots around my bedroom walls [approx 30 by 50 ft and some 15 light switches] it could be made to work.

From all the replies there's not been much sympathy for the confusion

3,4,5-way switches can cause. I agree, if there's a single switch controlling the light set, not a biggie, don't care about up or down position, but when you have light switch panels containing 4 and sometimes 5 switches it can be a bit daunting when you're half asleep. and don't want to exercise every frigging light in the room trying to find the right one.

Surprisingly, with a lot of switches running one set of lights, swapping has been far easier than expected. The four conductor switches that provide the X Cross [you can stack 20 of these switches if you wanted to] are clearly labeled with two IN and two OUT and a red and black wire to a single 'cable' goes to either IN or OUT. Sadly, the switch manufacturers are not consistent in where on their switches the IN and OUT's are located. So have to pay a bit of attention. So far, with a lot of switches running a single light section all I've had to do is swap either the IN or the OUT wire side and done. Plus, with 14 Awg the switch wiring is not disturbed too much so the switch goes right back in the box after the change.

The really difficult one has been to find the right wires to swap on the 'simple' 2 switch controller set up. They only have 3 wires and it's not obvious which two to switch. black, black, red for example. I know one is common and I swap the other two, but... I actually had to use an ohmmeter to find out on one switch and was VERY surprised as to the two to swap. Didn't look right from the physical locations on the switch, but worked out.

[Metspitzer]

Get one of these

[Doug Miller]

[e-mail] wrote in news: [e-mail]:

This is untrue.

Want proof? Set it up so that the lights are off when all four switches are down.

Now turn one of the switches upside down. The lights are still off, but now there are three switches down, and one up.

[Robert Macy]

Thanks, will be useful for labeling all the house TV coax, cat-5, and security system cabling! Security system alone is daunting with 8 cameras and 20+ individual lines. Today is easy, but working a month from now is not so easy - can't remember what is what.

For the light switches that still leaves three problems.

1. Doesn't look very elegant.
2. How to name them and still know what the labels mean ;)
3. This is a bit more difficult to overcome, adhesives don't stick well, or long, here. Could seal with clear coat of something, but now we're talking the first time the switch panels get cleaned, ALL that comes off, single wipe.

[Metspitzer]

If you want it really professional, you can have the labels etched in the covers.

[Metspitzer]

Btw You can also pick one color for security, one color for network and one color for CATV.

You can also take a photo of your switch plates and then type on the photo the location of the switch and the label you want etched. (mspaint will do)

Or you can just write the info on the back of the cover when you take them off. (sharpie)

[Metspitzer]

BTW Captain Kirk and his team managed to Trek the universe without having their command console marked. I don't know why you can navigate a house. :)

[dennisgauge]

down position, the lights will always end up OFF.

Obviously you weren't reading carefully because that's EXACTLY what he said.

Nobody's checking each switch. He just wants the "home position" to be all four switches DOWN, and light OFF. It's a form of OCD.

switches in a certain position with the lights off. Either four down, two down, or four up.

Yes, he can. All he wants is, "All four switches DOWN, lights OFF."

What you keep harping on and on about is "All four switches MUST be down for the lights to be OFF." That is not what he wants.

Clearly he was able to achieve it because he replied and stated such. All it required was swapping the wires on the first switch.

[dennisgauge]

there are three

So do you wander through the house flipping switches over in electrical boxes on a daily basis?

If he wires it up so that all four are down and the lights are off, and LEAVES THEM ALONE, then the lights will be off with the switches in three states:

1. Four down.
2. Two down.
3. Four up.

[The Daring Dufas]

Hey, The Next Generation had touch screens that beeped whenever they touched them. ^_^

TDD