Wiring for multiple control [4 switches control one set of lights] light switch !!!

Ok Ok I know this is simple but it's irritating me beyond belief.

Leviton light switches.

In a dual box next to an outside door there are two light switches. One is the single control for a porch light, the other is a one of four switches that turn on/off the hall way lights.

Of course the installer put the hallway light switch adjacent to the door opening and the porch light switch way on the inside. Plus, paid no attention to having all of the individual multiple switches end up in any proper position when the hallway light is off, so want to change. Swapping these two switches in their physical location in the box is no problem the wiring appears to be long enough, although the cabling comes down through the inlet holes in the wrong places. but still reaches.

Big problem is the best way to change the switching action of the multiple control switch. Went to google, not much help there. as usual. Did find that 4 wire means 3 switches, not four. and nothing for 5-wire and found an interesting description of how a 'control' switch is in the box that supplies wiring up to the fixture. That may be this box, but doubt it, because this switch has four leads.

However *if* this is the cable that goes up to the light fixtures; why there would be a RED and a BLACK going to the fixtures when all I need is the BLACK power going up there. So, thought I'd ask.

Ignoring GND wiring that's all done correctly. There is a cable with RED, BLACK, and WHITE, call it CABLE A. Another cable, call it CABLE B has RED, BLACK, and WHITE. As expected the WHITE is simply bypassing everything with a wire nut. BLACK A goes to IN at the top of the switch. BLACK B goes to OUT at the top of the switch. RED A goes to IN close to bottom of switch and RED B goes to OUT close to bottom of switch.

What is the best way to rewire the switch to get the inverse from what it is now and the 'proper' position?

Reply to
Robert Macy
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Before you do anything, take pictures of how it is now.

If what you have is 3 way or 4 way switches, sometimes the switch will be up when the light is off. I think that is what you are asking. Sorry I quit reading about half way down.

Reply to
Metspitzer

Agreed. you can start by having the light off when all the switches are down, but as soon as one switch is up to light the light, another switch will have to go up to turn the light off. Now you will have two switches down and two switches up, and the light will be off. Now you will have to turn one up switch down or one down switch up to turn the light back on. So can't dp what you seem to want to do - sorrry.

Reply to
hrhofmann

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+1

Let's start with the simplest multiple switch system, ie 3 way. That uses two switches. But the state of the light and the position of the switches is not fixed. On can be either up or down, depending on the position of the other switch.

If you want them all to work the same way, there is a solution. Look at Lutron Maestro series. Essentially they are electronic dimmers. You have one master one and up to 10 companion ones. They connect very easily using the existing wire. They are really cool dimmers. You can set the level you want and when you push the switch they softly come up to that level or softly go out. If you're leaving and want the lights to go off in 15 secs or 2 mins, you just push the switch like you're turning it off, but hold it. A series of leds starts increasing, showing how long until it turns off. When you get the amount of time you want, you release the switch. There are also versions with motion sensors too.

Downside is that they aren't cheap...... To do

4 you're probably looking at $125+
Reply to
trader4

*You can just turn the switches upside down without changing the wiring.
Reply to
John Grabowski

The K.I.S.S. solution. I salute thee sir! ^_^

TDD

Reply to
The Daring Dufas

LOL! chloroform in print?

Reply to
Robert Macy

It's a bit obsessive, but I like to be able to set ALL the switches at some time to the 'proper' position. It's easier to tell which switch had been turned on to control what light, especially when there are racks of these switches EVERYWHERE!

Reply to
Robert Macy

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Interesting. Will this brand control *any* load?

Reply to
Robert Macy

no, tried that. two reasons. wiring is 14 Awg and a b**** to fuss with, usually marginally too short, and the GND wire appears to be oriented downward.

Unfortunately, the minute I post a question, the solution becomes evident. After measuring the voltages on the switch as I operated several; I found the switch is a simple X reversal. so I only had to swap the two 'input' lines and got the effect I wanted.

Reply to
Robert Macy

y.- Hide quoted text -

They have several different models that will work various LIGHTS, including transformer driven ones. Being dimmers, they are targetted to dimmable lights.

But I see in another post that you want to see the switch position to tell if it's on or off. These use a push paddle type of system, so there is no toggle switch to look at. It might have an LED indicator though that shows when it's on. Not sure about that. Probably does though, because if you have 6 of these Lutron dimmers it would be good to know at each one that somebody has turned the light on. When I'm back at the house I will check for you.

Reply to
trader4

That was my first approach, but was NOT implementable.

Reply to
Robert Macy

The pair that connects the 3way and 4way switches in series are called "travelers" and you can install an unlimited number of 4way switches on the pair. When I worked on a Core of Engineers job some years ago, I had to explain and illustrate the operation of 3 and 4way switches to my electrical foreman and superintendent because they were mystified by their operation. So don't feel bad if you had a problem with them. ^_^

TDD

Reply to
The Daring Dufas

Maybe you could explain what the issue is that Robert seems to be having? I don't get it. He seems to be saying that he wants up to be on and down to be off, or vice-versa, for at least some of the switches. From my experience with 3 way and 4 way, that isn't possible. The switch position for on depends on the position of the other switch or switches. Does something change when you get to 5 way, or is he tilting at windmills? Even more mysterious, in his recent post he says he rewired it and solved the issue? My guess is that to achieve what he wants is impossilbe with conventional toggle switches. Or else I'm not understanding the issue.

Reply to
trader4

I believe he wants the lights to be off when all the switches are in the do wn position. Normally can be downe by just removing the switch and turning it 180deg and putting it back in the box. But it sounds like his wires ar e a bit short for that.

Frankly there is not much point to it anyway as the whole reason you have m ultiple switches is so you can turn the lights on or off from any of the lo cations. You enter the hall at one end in the dark so you turn the light o n. When you exit the other end you turn the light off. Now you have two s witches in the up position but the lights are off.

Reply to
jamesgang

e:

down position.  Normally can be downe by just removing the switch and tur ning it 180deg and putting it back in the box.  But it sounds like his wi res are a bit short for that.

multiple switches is so you can turn the lights on or off from any of the locations.  You enter the hall at one end in the dark so you turn the lig ht on.  When you exit the other end you turn the light off.  Now you ha ve two switches in the up position but the lights are off.- Hide quoted tex t -

I agree completely with the last part of what you said. So, I still don't understand the talk about re-wiring, turning switches upside down, etc. I think we agree it would only "fix" the problem until another switch position was changed.

Reply to
trader4

Robert:

I'm thinking that your best bet might be to simply replace your 4 way switches with ones that have either lighted toggles or toggles of a different colour than the rest of the switches in each "bank" of switches. That will at least set them apart visually, so you're brain recognizes that those switches are different, and the toggle being in the up position doesn't mean that anything is "ON".

I'm not familiar with 4 way switches, but with 3 way switches there really is no "OFF" position like you have with ordinary switches. With

3 way switches, you have two different "ON" positions where the switch sends power down one conductor or another depending on the toggle position, but no "OFF" position. But, in that case, toggle down doesn't mean the light is off since whether or not electricity flows depends on the position of BOTH three way switches, not just the position of one three way switch.
Reply to
nestork

Along the lines of "LED indicator", I believe an old thread had a 3-way switch with a pilot light. There was a resistor from each traveler to a common point, with the pilot light from the common point to the neutral. The common point would be 120V with the lights off and 60V with lights (incandescent) on. Could do the same thing with a 4-way, and the manufacturer probably did. (Switch lights up with the lights off.)

Can't do what the OP wants - multiple control positions with switch that turned the light on in the up position. Actually you could by wiring all single pole switches in parallel and the switch(es) that are 'up' turned the light on, but not a useful solution.

Closest may center off, momentary contact up and down switches, as in your post, where you don't have 'chaotic' random up and down switch positions.

Lots of descriptions of 3-way, 4-way switches on the internet which the OP should look at if he hasn't figured out how his switches work.

Reply to
bud--

e:

down position.  Normally can be downe by just removing the switch and tur ning it 180deg and putting it back in the box.  But it sounds like his wi res are a bit short for that.

multiple switches is so you can turn the lights on or off from any of the locations.  You enter the hall at one end in the dark so you turn the lig ht on.  When you exit the other end you turn the light off.  Now you ha ve two switches in the up position but the lights are off.

Even if he starts off with all the switched "aligned", operating any two switches will put you back to square one but with the switches now misaligned, so pointless pursuit even trying.

Reply to
harry

The only way it can be done is to control the light with a device similar to a motor starter with multiple start/stop buttons.

Reply to
harry

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