Why can't electronics on new washers & dryers be tougher?

[AZ Nomad]

Q: Why don't the British make TV sets? A: They can't get them to leak oil. A2: They can make anything leak oil.

[Sylvia Else]

Marketing. I saw a washing machine that was advertised as having "crystal control". Presumably, it timed its wash cycles to one part in

10^9.

Sylvia.

[Don Klipstein]

Crystals aren't that good unless especially good and in temperatrure-controlled ovens. I would hope for one part in 10^6 to one part in 10^7 or so.

Meanwhile, crystal oscillator circuits are not expensive to make. Even modules of such are easily available and cost maybe a couple bucks or so, maybe closer to a buck in quantities of tens or hundreds of thousands. Cheaper crystal oscillator circuits may be had for something like 50-60 cents each in quantities of tens of thousands.

The alternative for reliably having a complete cycle's timing down to seconds out of an hour is "power line time base", costing a fraction of a buck, probably a smaller fraction, less than cheaper crystal oscillator options.

Cheaper still requires oscillators regulated by component tolerances - and oscillators tend to have at least two components affecting frequency, and finest tolerance of ones easily available at premium prices is 1%, meaning low chance of achieving timing highly reliably better than 2% in either direction unless either crystal or power line time base is used.

Mechanical timers use "synchronous motors", which gives "power line time base", good enough to make electric clocks with. Many digital electric clocks use electronic means to make use of "power line frequency time base".

- Don Klipstein ( [e-mail])

[Sylvia Else]

I'd have thought getting the cycle to within 10% would be more than adequate.

Sylvia.

[Plague Boy]

No, because time and Tide wait for no man.

[brassplyer]

They all appear to have various bells & whistles - specific setting for various fabrics, variable speed this, sensor something or other that, various lights, LED time remaining readout etc. etc

In contrast, the Speed Queen front load units at the laundromat have about 4 buttons for different temps and that's it - a mechanical pointer gauge indicates approximately where it is in the cycle. It might adjust the water level depending on the load size but I can't say for sure. If there's a front loader made in a similar barebones way for the home market I haven't seen one at Home Depot or Lowes. You'd think there would be a market for it. I assume those commercial units are expensive.

[William Sommerwerck]

If the washer has an automatic detergent dispenser, the Tide needn't wait.

[Eeyore]

The EU has made it less bullettproof by insisting on lead-free solder. It doesn't like vibration.

Graham

-- due to the hugely increased level of spam please make the obvious adjustment to my email address

[Ron]

I`m alergic to Tide, Daz is ok tho ;^)

[William Sommerwerck]

Do you mean Duz?

[Ron]

No, I meant Daz

[Chris Hill]

Two companies in the business, where else are you going to go. One did it and made the product cheaper, the other had to follow.>.

[AZ Nomad]

That explains why there are no washers or dryers that cost more than $200.

Oh, wait a minute a minute, there are. Kind of blows your theory to hell.

For example, if people hear that maytag neptunes have serious reliability problems, but LG's costing $100 more don't, and they buy the LG instead it is a perfect example of a maker choosing to pay attention to the quality of the electronics and yet being able to remain in business.

[Bob Larter]

Hell, you can swap daughters for appliances. ;^)

[Bob Larter]

Lord of Darkness?

[Bob Larter]

Jeez. I haven't run into that one in person, but it wouldn't surprise me. The current craze for insane amounts of megapixels in digicams with toy lenses is a very similar problem.

[Bob Larter]

A washing machine could be out by 20% or more without causing a problem.

The traditional synchronous motor is more than accurate enough for the application.

[Bob Larter]

It would be. Washing machines used to use synchronous motors driving a cam, which was far more accurate than necessary to do the job properly.

[Bob Larter]

*groan*

[Bob Larter]

They are, but they last forever. Buy one, & you'll never need to buy another one. Contrast that to the modern domestic units, where you'll be lucky to get 3 years out of them.