On Sun, 5 Jul 2015 21:12:01 -0700 (PDT), firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
JB is right, if you vent air out of the house, it will have to be
replaced by other air, warm air from outside the house. If you used
the same air, sucked in air from outside just to cool the coils, it
would not cool the coils as well, because it woudl be hotter than the
air iln the rest of your house** So you'd need more air, that is a
** (My house at least is much cooler than outside on the first floor.
Tnat's not always true on the seocnd floor)
You'd have to have the coils that are on the back of the fridge outside
the house instead.
When I had AC, I only used it 20 or 30 days a year, in Baltimore, but
even when I wasn't using it, I never noticed heat coming from the
fridge. Now that my AC is broken for the last 2 years or so, I still
don't noticed any heat. Admittedly, the coils are in the back and the
heat from them gradually spreads into the rest of the kitchen, but I
think what really makes the difference is that I don't open the fridge
door very much. If the door isn't opened, like for 8 hours every night,
I'll bet the thing hardly runs at all.
Again, there's only one of me, but otoh some people just open the door
and stare at the food for a while.
On 7/6/2015 12:12 AM, email@example.com wrote:
we have A/C. my house doesn't. I live in Oregon.
the few weeks when it gets very hot the refrigerator
feels like the range has been left on. simply venting
this hot air out thru the roof or exterior wall doesn't
seem too difficult. I could add a bathroom vent fan
if needed and have it turn on when the refr runs.
all of this is a comfort issue, not $ savings.
Doing the outside air thing makes sense. But it would
need coordination between the builders, the HVAC folks,
and the refrigerator designers.
BTW, the coils which get hot are condenser coils, the
cold ones are evaporator. If you put the evaporator
coils outdoors, the food would be warm.
On Monday, July 6, 2015 at 8:57:27 AM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:
one could probably have a heat echanger outside, run pex to the kitchen attach somehow the condensor coils to say copper line then pump the water of antifreeze from outside thru the coils attached to the fridges heat exchanger.
its a interesting thought
On Monday, July 6, 2015 at 9:35:12 AM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Because the heat is helping heat your house for one thing.
It costs less than $100 a year to run a fridge. Let's say
it amounts to $30 in winter. It's like getting $30 worth
of electric heat added to the house. And I can almost
assure you that once you start making more holes going
outside, ducting in cold air, you're going to wind up
losing plenty of energy too. Leaks around openings, ducts
that fail, come apart. Why fix what isn't broken? Even
if you had a fridge where it was possible to install it
that way, you'd find out that 99.X% would never use it.
On Monday, July 6, 2015 at 9:08:10 AM UTC-4, bob haller wrote:
Not when the cost to run a fridge is under $100 a year.
Clearly that isn't a lot of heat. And the heat is only
an issue in the summer, with AC on. In winter, it's helping.
What do you think all that, ie fluid pumps, antifreeze,
piping, another heat exchanger, etc would add in terms
of cost, maintenance, failure points, etc? Why fix what's
On Monday, July 6, 2015 at 8:57:27 AM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:
It doesn't make sense. The heat generated by a modern refrigerator
is minimal. In winter, it adds to the heat you want in the house.
Spring/Fall, you typically have windows open, so it doesn't matter.
In summer, if you have no AC, you typically have the windows open,
so it isn't going to matter much. If you have AC it's a small
negative impact on the energy balance. A refrigerator costs less
that $100 a year to run. That isn't much heat. Now compare that
to the cost of the venting, the problems with running the venting,
connecting the venting somehow to the fridge, the electric used to
power the venting, etc and it doesn't add up.
On Monday, July 6, 2015 at 9:29:40 AM UTC-4, Mayayana wrote:
Here we go again. Try using Google Groups for once, instead
of blindly complaining about it. The date of every post is clearly
shown. People do Google searches for a particular problem, find old
threads and proceed to respond to them. What would you prefer,
that all old threads and the information be lost forever, so
it's *all* started over again, each time?
I know this is a bit late to reply to this one, but the answer is simple: "
It's because the destructive, unsustainable energy we consume is ridiculous
ly & artificially cheap". This is because not only are the many, destructiv
e, externalizer costs (think oil wars & spills, nuclear waste disposal, air
& water pollution, climate change, etc) of this energy not figured into th
e price, but these energies are all subsidized by our backwards gov. polici
es. That's right, they take "our" hard earned money (to the tune of 800 bil
lion + globally per annum), and give it to oil companies alone. If instead
of paying the taxes we pay regardless, we only paid more for the energy we
used.., and only when we used it, then we'd demand more efficient appliance
s, homes, cars, etc. Now add to that if our gov. rightly incorporated into
fuel costs the "true" cost of every oil spill (not there worthless attempts
to "remediate" them, but actually paid for the damage done to the ecosyste
m, economies, etc.), the costs of every oil war (trillions?!), the costs of
all the air pollution (think hospitalization, premature deaths, etc)... Nu
clear catastrophes and hazardous waste dumping (see Hanford nuclear waste s
ite for but one example) then and ONLY then would appliances,,homes, vehicl
es etc. be made as efficiently as possible. So there you have it... The "t
ruth" as to why these seemingly common sense efficiency improvements don't
enter the market... Because our unsustainable energy is "ARTIFICIALLY" chea
p! Fur anyone reading this post, do your part to help solve this crisis of
idiocy and write, call or at least email your representatives and let them
know that you demand that unsustainable energy sources are taxed to incorp
orate their "true" costs. Don't worry, your energy bills will not increase
because viable, sustainable energy sources and efficient technologies will
take over more quickly than you can possibly imagine. Here's to a just and
peaceful future based on logic and sanity.
On Thu, 3 Sep 2015 23:42:21 -0700 (PDT), firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
I guess you didn't study thermodynamics in school.
In the winter, the fridge is a heat pump, assisting your furnace in
keeping your house warm. It takes the heat from things you put in
there and returns it to the house. At that point the only "waste" is
from the time that you have the door open.
If you heat exchanged it with cooler outside air, you are throwing
that heat away.
The only time it really hurts you is in the summer when you are paying
for air conditioning but that is true of everything electrical and any
fossil fuel appliances you have, minus what goes up the flue,
particularly if you do not have fresh air for combustion.
I am in Florida and my water heater is outside the HVAC envelope, just
for that reason. I also cook outside as much as possible.
Interesting topic. Probably the benefit doesn't outweigh the cost. Or mayb
it is a wash. When I go to the grocery store, I see plenty of free-standing
refrigerated cases that put warm air into the space, which then must be re
moved by the a/c for the whole store. Then again, the big cases are all coo
led from outside. My own home refer warms my house in the winter, but goes
against the a/c in the summer, so it is a wash.
I know you were talking about this years ago, but I just wanted to write in
that I moved into a house that has a wine cellar. The problem is that the
last owners were probably paying hundreds, if under a thousand, dollars pe
r year to keep it cool. But in Montana, we have lots of cools - even on th
e hottest day of the year, it's likely to drop below 50F at night.
So, I ran some ductwork into and out of the wine cellar from outdoors, stuc
k some 43CFM CPU fans in it (2 on input, 2 on output), and turned it on ove
Problems on first try: 3" duct is too small, even with power. More import
antly, corrugated flexible duct is extremely resistive to air flow. And it
's also apparently a great conductor. The duct traverses the ceiling of th
e wood room (firewood storage, so not generally heated), and comes out the
other end of the tube at whatever temperature it is in the wood room.
Results: Pumping in air around freezing, almost none of those "cools" made
it into the wine cellar, although tons of cools were dropped into the wood
Lessons learned: For low power, quiet air movement, and to reduce temperatu
re exchange, a duct to a refrigerator would need to be significant diameter
(I'll be replacing with mostly 6", and 4" at the complicated bendy parts),
non-corrugated (straight wall), and seriously well-insulated duct. I thin
k it could work, but it's not as straightforward as you would think.
On Thursday, January 28, 2010 at 8:39:00 AM UTC-7, blueman wrote:
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