None that I've seen but there are some very poor design practices out there. Many years ago I worked in TV shops (remember them?) and an old fellow I worked with was always growling about the design engineers who should be flogged for some of the crap they designed and how they should be forced to work on it. 8-)
TDD
I'm surprised that you're now back to saying that the NEC clearly does not allow a 20 amp receptacle on a 15 amp circuit. As I recall, a month ago, you provided us with the link to the actual discussion among the writers of the NEC on that specific issue and it was clear that they were saying that 210.21 B1 allows it and they made no reference to 406 disallowing it. Or did I miss something from back then? IMO, 406 isn't clear on that and while you could interpret it that way, it's strange that the NEC code guys weren't talking about it.
The thread was "15A outlets on 20A circuits" which started 10-12.
I consistently said in that thread that 406.3-A prohibits a 20A receptacle on a 15A circuit and could be used to tag the installation. My last post was "as I said, IMHO a 20A receptacle on a 15A circuit can be tagged under 403.6-A [should be 406.3-A]".
I did say that the code panel for 210 did not agree and that 210.21-B-1 allows it.
If I was an inspector I would argue (as I did above) that 210.21-B-1 is a general provision but that 406.3-A is specific to 15A circuits. The specific rule trumps the general rule. And the appropriate place to look for the rule is in the article on receptacles, which is 406.
IMHO 406.3-A clearly prohibits a 20A receptacle on a 15A circuit. I believe gfretwell agreed.
Well yes, but the Variac I use is about 50+ years old. Someone probably added the hot and neutral fused plug because it also has a fuse built into the case, and a switch of course.
anything more than it is rated for, a 20 amp outlet is stronger and will withhold overusage better..it is best to measure or calculate the amperage of the machine/s you will be plugging into it and if you plan to have a constant load plugged onto it permanent rate it properly. I have see this many times, specially on outlets where extension cords wth multiple appliances floor lamps display cases and stuff plugged in to them..They Brown Out and melt. Roy Q.T. E.E.Technician
Why? The reality is that they don't want *anyone* working on it. It's a design requirement. ;-)
That is a stupid rule and a poor observance by the code enforcement community. A 20 amp receptacle on a 15 amp circuit endangers no one, as mentioned the circuit breaker will detect any overload and trip, now a 15 amp receptacle on 20 amp circuit is dangerous and will eventually brown out. Roy Q.T. E.E.Technician
That's right it's me, I control my demons. Roy
At least you're not YELLING! 8-0
TDD
I've seen junk sit there and burn up without tripping the breaker in the panel and this confuses a lot of folks. I have to explain the purpose of the circuit breakers to them. Now I don't know if the newer arc fault circuit breakers would trip under the same circumstances.
TDD
Yes, they are! Few things hurt more than stepping on one without shoes on, too :-)
I have mixed feelings about them - yes, they're enormous, but they're also very solid - the pins don't bend or get damaged like can happen with US plugs, and the 'hot' pins are shielded at the tops so that the ground always makes contact before the hot pins do (I've seen a lot of situations where US plugs get pulled - or just fall due to wear - partway out of outlets, exposing the pins)
All in all they're not too annoying I think, except in portable situations or where you want lots of things plugged into a power strip.
cheers
Jules
Respectfully disagree. As TTD point out, it's quite possible for the circuit breaker to fail to operate for any number of reasons. In such cases trying to pull 20A through 15A rated wiring is just asking for serious trouble, IMHO.
-- Bobby G.
te:
At least you are not INSULTING! (cancelled due to rain)
ROY STEPPED OUT I GOT THIS NOW:) HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND! PATECUMSEH
It is what roy was trying to explain, the underrated receptacle will not withstand the amperage, despite the breaker, because it burns under the breakers protective current rating. I hope when he comes back and sees this maybe he can explain it better.
[Proteus is gone, There just hasn't been anytime to close his account, and frankly I like it so who knows] Tecumseh The Ghost in The Machine
Bobby G you will have to wait for Roy Qs response but I don't think that is what he implied. I am just around to collect some lost souls :/ Tecumseh The Ghost in the Machine
Please don't feed the trolls.
You have the right to your opinion. I don't think you'll find awg#14 on a household circuit designed for outlets, which would be the only case where the wiring should not exceed 15 amps., he most likely has 12awg which is rated for 20 amps and safe to operate a 20A receptacle.
The rule is innaplicable in such case as I mentioned above, because the outlet supersedes the protective circuits rating...not the protection itself.
Don't believe the hype or any damn ghost stories. Roy Q.T.
ote:
Seems to me you just took one out to dinner.
Huh? I can't remember ever living in a house which used anything BUT
14AWG for general recep ckts.nate
You can watch a troll eat here:
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