Who becomes responsible?

[Steve]

Here's my potential problem:

My cable signal, both for TV and internet was very bad. I phoned the cable company (Comcast), and the tech, after doing some readings on his meter said that I had a very low signal, almost no signal, and traced it back to the cable company's box down the street. He said that they would have to replace the underground cable from that box to my house.

They would have to cut thru a neighbor's lawn and my lawn to get the cable to my house. They will wait until all the utility companies come out and map out the underground work so they don't do any damage. All that sounds reasonable. Here's where I don't know how it goes.

My neighbor and I both have underground sprinkler systems. I have 8 sprinkler heads on that side of the house, my neighbor probably has double that since it's his entire front lawn, and the cable would be installed across his entire front lawn.

The cable company, as they make their cuts in the ground to lay the new cable cannot possibly miss all the underground sprinkler hoses. There is likely to be some, or a lot of damage. We know where the sprinkler heads are, but we can't possibly map out the underground water lines.

Suppose that they cut my neighbor's line? Are they responsible to repair it? It's so very likely that they will slash someone's underground water line. I like my neighbor. We don't have a relationship or anything, we're just people who live next to each other, but have respect for each other's property. I wouldn't want to see him have a hassle over this.

The fact that the cable is out is not my fault, and it's not my responsibility to repair it. I'm not getting charged for the repair, since the cable company has to maintain it's network, but what about the damage that they do?

Will they say it's not their fault because I can't show where those underground water lines are?

How likely are they to deal with my neighbor, if his sprinkler water lines are cut and damaged? He's a totally innocent bystander here.

How likely am I to get compensated when they do damage to my lines?

Steve

[hallerb]

How deep are your sprinklers? Its very likely the cable will be all under the sprinklers.

[Edwin Pawlowski]

Why not ask the cable company? They have lawyers on retainer that have the answers to all of your questions.

Paging Judge Wapner. Judge Wapner, call on line 2.

[Moisés Nacio]

"Steve" wrote

Around here, they have right-of-ways, for utilities. They run through the adjoining properties, 5' on each side of the property line, this gives them room to get equipment in, if needed.

My cable was run, then about a week later they came to "bury" it. It's only about 2" under the surface, a machine cut the sod and placed the cable. You couldn't even tell they cut it, except for the grass was pressed down from the tires on the machine.

I think you're making a big issue, over a non-issue. But, it was based on the "techs" information. To my knowledge, cable companies are not allowed to run cable where ever they please.

[Tony Hwang]

Hi, Same in my neighborhood. cable, Phone, Electric, Gas pipe/water pipe all run in certain way. "One call does it" can mark all the cables and pipes. Don't know about sprinkler. I guess if they damage it, they'll fix it but they do this all the time, so they'd know how to what to do.

[Sacramento Dave]

Seems to me if there not willing to repair any piping they damage then they should not be digging up peoples property. I'm sure the cable Co. has been down this road many times. Call them and ask, it's that simple.

[kevin]

Thats been my experience as well. The line will follow the street or sidewalk, then maybe along a property line, then finally make a bee-line for your house across your property. It would be odd to place a sprinkler so close to a street or sidewalk, no? And if they did, I think it would be the sprinkler installer's fault for putting lines on a right of way.

So you probably have only your own sprinklers to worry about.

-Kevin

[Steve]

I'm the original poster, and I appreciated the responses.

To respond to some of the posts:

I don't know how deep my sprinkler water lines are, and I can't speak for my neighbor's lines, but I remember seeing my lines put in, and it's at least over a foot deep.

Part of the problem, is that my neighbor has a 20' wide driveway, and the cable guy said they need a certain machine so they can run the cable UNDER the driveway. They really can't get it here any other way. That also means that the cable won't be an inch or 2 under the ground, at least not near the driveway.

If the cable company's box on the street was on my property, the cable guy told me he could have just run a line himself instead of waiting for the big boys with the big machinery.

I'm on a residential paved street, with a paved sidewalk, and some front sprinkler heads are located next to the paving, which means that my water lines run directly across the entire lawn. We don't know exactly where any of the water lines are. Nobody does.

I know I'll have to ask the cable company about their liability, but it just seems crappy to have to put a neighbor thru the hassle if there is a problem ruining their sprinkler lines.

[Avery]

I really don't know the law in your part of the world. but it seems very strange that a cable company could simply walk onto private property and run a cable wherever they wanted with no regard to damage caused.

Lets imagine for a moment that they do run the cable across your neighbours lawn and cause no permanent damage. What happens in 2 -3 years time when your neighbour sells up and moves on and the new owner decides to extend his sprikler system. In the process he rips up the cable. Who is resposible?

In any case their is a cable already in service. Surely if they replace it they will simply pull it through the same conduit. That's what happens here.

[Jim Redelfs]

You have virtually NOTHING to worry about.

The digger is responsible for any damage they cause, whether it is to YOUR property or that of others.

The digger is responsible for obtaining all appropriate "locates" (locations of underground utilities).

As for the digger, they may have several concerns: Are they replacing a "main" cable or simply a "drop wire" (buried service wire)? Since the tech said that, were it not for the fact that he would have to cross your neighbor's property, he could have laid a temporary wire, I suspect it is a drop wire. If so, and your neighbor is particularly savvy, he could DENY them access to his property if their plan is to plow OUTSIDE of an easement, if there even IS one. Drops are frequently run ANYWHERE and everywhere - and often OUTSIDE of an easement.

Burying under a driveway is no big deal. They will simply BORE under it using the old-fashioned method (boring rods and "Roto-Witch") or the better - and more expensive - technology: Directional boring. With the latter, they could bore under/across your neighbor's lawn AND yours and never even get close to any sprinkler lines.

Since virtually all sprinkler system owners have NO idea where their lines run, and are unwilling to give an official "all clear" to use a plow (vibratory lawn plow), the drop is placed MANUALLY using the "sod split" method. This places the wire VERY shallow (2-3 inches is "deep") and is often very hard on the wire.

Having run a plow for seven years AND using the sod split method of placing AND having repaired a cut sprinkler line, if I had to replace a wire, I would use the PLOW and simply (yes, SIMPLY) repair a cut sprinkler line or three. The drop would be placed appropriately deep (8-10-inches), I would fire-up the sprinkler system to locate any cuts, dig 'em up and repair them, and be done.

Because of the extra work involved using this method, virtually NO utility that I can think of uses it - but I would.

On the other hand, if you have the $$, you might offer to PAY for a directional bore placement (see above) and not worry about anything.

Good luck. I wouldn't worry about it.

[Joseph Meehan]

I suggest your advice may work where you live, but I suspect that there are hundreds of variations on this subject depending on where you live.

The OP needs to check their local authorities or their own attorney for accurate information. In reality they are likely to get a quick accurate answer from the cable company.

In my area the primary utility lines run in easements that while owned by me I have little control over. The utilities have the right to dug up anything in their way any time they want. If that damages something I put there, that is my tough luck and I might even end up paying them to remove it.

I don't know what might happen with damage to my property outside the easement. I suspect it will be my problem on my land, but the cable company would need to get permission if they want to dig in a part of my neighbor's yard outside their easement. You laws may be different.

[Kurt Ullman]

In article ,

FWIW in Central Indiana. When I had a new drop put in, they cut the wires to one of the zones. I called the cable company, they yawned in a rather bored manner, and then fixed it. This was off the easement. Seemed like it was something they did quite often.

[Colbyt]

Joseph has presented a very accurate statement for most of the US where subdivisions and deeds contain what is called an "easement of record". If your sprinkler heads or lines are constructed in a recorded easement area the person who placed them there is the one who did it wrong.

Most utility companies try to maintain good customer relations and may try to avoid or even repair damages but they are not required to do so if the damage occurs within the easement.

[jd]

around here (NH) the utilitiy companies are required to have an easment on the property that they run lines through (if they are underground). That means that anything the property owner does on that part of the property is at thier (owners) own risk, and the utility can work with no liability for damages to items installed on the easment.

who pays for damage to systems on your and your neighbors lots will have to be worked out between the two of you, but from alegal standpoint, my guess would be that the owner is responsible for repairing anything that is damaged - the easment provides a clear indication that that part of the property is not avialable for permanent development of nay kind, so any installations are done at the owners risk.... Not vey neighborly, ut thats my guess.....

'Course, if you neighbor has the same cable company as you, he's probably going to benefit from the repair too....

On another note: it is very unlikely that the cable would suddenly go bad. If your conenction was good, then got bad, what has most likely happened is that your cable company has oversubscribed the line (this is a common business parcaitce). that means that they sell more bandwidth than the line can deliver, on the assumption that not eceryone will be online at the same time. A simple test would be to log on at a really odd time, and measure your bandwidth (both up and down). If it is the same as it is during peak times, there is probably a hardware problem (but once again, not necesarily the wire). If the throughput is better at off-peak times (like 2AM), the wire is fine.

Many cable companies will try to present the most inconvenient (nad expensive) repair possible instead of upgrading their infrastructure. If they can convince a customer to simply deal with the poor performance )or even go to another provider), they don't have to make expensive (more expensive than the wire replacement) infrastructure upgrades....... If you'e got a friend that is net-savvy, have him/her hook up with the provider, ask to see the detailed diagnostics, and make sure that they aren't yanking your chain..... A quick call to your PUC or cable oversight group might also shed som elight....

--JD

[Oren]

Our home owner association requires a contractor to have a type of Bond (not sure the exact name) to cover potential damage to a neighbor's property. This is not always the case, it depends on the type of work. For example a crane may be needed to set large landscape trees or a spa, etc.. into a back yard. If something happens that damages the next door house, property, etc., the Bond is there to cover cost of the damage.

Oren

[Andy Asberry]

I'll disagree with you on this. Using your analogy, if the water, electric, phone and cable lines were all within the utility easement, they could dig up each others lines without worrying about repairs.

I have a petroleum pipeline across my farm. They have a 30' easement to maintain those pipes. I can build a house or barn or fence on the easement. House or barn wouldn't be smart but they are required to compensate me for ANY damages; even on the the easement. They pay for crop damage caused by testing and repair equipment.

An easement is a contract. It can say whatever the parties agree to. My electric easement states that if there are no poles on the easement WITH cables attached for a period of three years, the easement is abandoned and is forfeited. Part of it has been abandoned.

That agreement was signed in 1936; before underground cable was popular. If they wanted to go underground now, they would have to get a new easement. I would likely grant it because I enjoy having electricity.

--Andy Asberry recommends NewsGuy--

[Colbyt]

"easement of record" is a specific legal term that refers in this case to easements that were granted by the developer as a specific condition of the utility providing the requested service to the development. Those recorded easements are then passed along to the property owners at the time of purchase.

I think they have gotten a lot more one-sided than there were in 1936.

I won't claim to know what they say or how they apply in all areas. Most was all I claimed and that was limited to subdivisions.

As for the utilities and each other, they have 15' across the back of my lot to do their thing for cable and electric. Gas and water are in the front. I bet they have definite standards about which feet belong to whom.

I have received a notice from the electric company informing me that some of my plantings might be "at risk" should they need to do certain work. I ignored it but they have CYA by sending it.

[jerry_maple]

A utility company is pretty much required, as part of their agreement with the communities in which they provide service, to repair any damage they cause during installations or repairs. If there are complaints, that's why there are Public Utility Commissions.

About 10 years ago, got a call from the phone company. Seems like several people in the neighborhood (not us) were having problems with their phone lines. Hanging a TDR on the phone wires, the phone company techs decided that the problem was a badly done splice in the multi-line phone cable in our BACK yard. They dug a 2ft wide by 4ft long hole about 4ft deep and camped out in our back yard for 2 days fixing the cable.

Fixed everything up better than new when they were done. Packed the fill dirt well so it didn't settle later. Fixed the sprinkler line they broke. Sodded, not seeded the dirt - the new grass looked better than the old.

If you have specific concerns, talk to the cable company.

Jerry

[bigjim]

Dump cable and go satellite. Comcast in my town wants $82 /month for almost basic . I got Dish networkfor$60 month 3 tvs and 180 channels icluding encore andsome movie channels. Just say no to cable.

Steve wrote:

[trader4]

I wouldn;t waste my time worrying about this, checking easements, or anyting else. Cable companies pull cable every day. If they damage something, they will either fix it or pay to get it fixed. And what are we talking about here? A cut lawn sprinkler pipe? That can be quickly fixed in 20 mins with a spade, a short piece of pipe, two barb fittings, and clamps. The less involved you get with the whole thing the better off you will be. Start talking to your neighbor and you may be in for a lot more trouble.