Where is my problem with this flourescent lamp?

ERRRRRRR! Wrong! I would suggest you find an old florescent starter and take it apart, carefully break the glass off the silvered bulb and you will find a heat activated bi-metal switch. A little searching of The Interweb will help you learn how it works.

TDD

Whoa, I'm getting lost in this and the previous thread. I think I'll stay lost for now, I'm getting tired.

Most starters were neon.

THE NE2 LAMP WILL NOT WORK AS A STARTER!!! GEEZ!!! YOU HAVE NO CLUE HOW IT WORKS IF YOU THINK A NE2 LAMP IS THE SAME THING!! LOOK IT UP!

TDD

You should read a little further on the link you posted. Yes the glow tube can be neon, but it is not just a neon lamp. Try reading this part:

"The glow tube incorporates a switch which is normally open." (whoa, say that again!) *The glow tube incorporates a switch which is normally open.* (one more time?) _The glow tube incorporates a switch which is normally open._

OMG, there is even more on your link!

"When power is applied, a glow discharge takes place which heats a bimetal contact. A second or so later, the contacts close and provide current to the fluorescent filaments. Since the glow is extinguished, there is no longer any heating of the bimetal and the contacts open.

The glow tube incorporates a switch which is normally open. When power is applied, a glow discharge takes place which heats a bimetal contact. A second or so later, the contacts close and provide current to the fluorescent filaments. Since the glow is extinguished, there is no longer any heating of the bimetal and the contacts open.

Now be a man and admit you were wrong.

Follow up:

I cannibalized an unused FS-2 starter I found in my "junk box" and wired in it's glow bulb in place of the defective glow bulb I clipped out. To my surprise and disappointment, when I replaced the CFL bulb, plugged in the fixture and turned it on, the fixture and the glow bulb both continuously flickered. I waited about 5-10 seconds to see if it would stabilze; it didn't. I turned off the fixture, waited about 10 seconds, tried again with the same result. I then added the capacitor from the FS-2 in parallel with the glow bulb (as it was wired within the FS-2). Same behavior.

Should I assume that the glow bulb from the FS-2 is mismatched to this circuit (although the CLF is 18W and the FS-2 is rated for 14, 15, and 20W bulbs), or that something else is wrong in the circuit? Should I buy a starter with a higher rating and try again with that?

Thanks for the suggestion. The fixture has a polarized 2 prong plug. I've got one of those handy-dandy circuit testers with 3 neon bulbs on 1 end and a 3 prong polarized plug on the other and it tells me that the circuit I'm using for the fixture is properly grounded. I did try making nice to the glass tube while it was attempting to light - no change. No, I don't think grounding is the problem. Besides, the fixture worked just fine for 3 years plugged into the same receptacle.

Follow up:

It didn't work. I cannibalized an unused FS-2 starter I found in my "junk box" and wired in it's glow bulb in place of the defective glow bulb I clipped out. To my surprise and disappointment, when I replaced the CFL bulb, plugged in the fixture and turned it on, the fixture and the glow bulb both continuously flickered. I waited about 5-10 seconds to see if it would stabilze; it didn't. I turned off the fixture, waited about 10 seconds, tried again with the same result. I then added the capacitor from the FS-2 in parallel with the glow bulb (as it was wired within the FS-2). Same behavior.

Should I assume that the glow bulb from the FS-2 is mismatched to this circuit (although the CLF is 18W and the FS-2 is rated for 14, 15, and 20W bulbs), or that something else is wrong in the circuit? Should I buy a starter with a higher rating and try again with that?

What a moron.

Oh, you mean they don't have a neon tube in them? Funny, it said they did.

I don't recall ever seeing a starter for 14 to 20 watt bulbs besides the FS-2. I do recall though seeing many FS-2's that didn't list 18 watts. I have no idea why they are like that, but the -2 is the proper starter. Are you really sure the starter from the "junk box" isn't junk? I'd also try the other bulb again with that starter.

As far as a different wattage starter, sometimes when a bulb is going bad, but still works sometimes, the wrong type starter will sometimes work for a while. It's not a fix, it's a patch, and not even a good one.

Lets back up. How are you with electrical circuits... meaning would you remove the starter again and short the two ends from the lamp together to see if it lights? (plugged in and turned on) Shorting it only for a second or less, the ends of the bulb glow, opening the short and the bulb should fully light and stay lit.

Yes a sometimes neon, but always with a bimetal contact inside. That makes it a starter. Are you saying that NE2 neon bulbs have bimetal contacts inside them?

Got a lot of other stuff going on right now.

As soon as I get a chance, I'll first try a different bulb (although as I previously noted, this bulb works perfectly normally in the other identical fixture). The starter I took from my junk box is a GE brand; it was in an unopened blister pack. Could be bad, but I would guess, probably not. Although it was really difficult for me to get the leads soldered (only had about 1/8" overlap to work with), I guess before I trash the fixture it would be worthwhile to open one of the solder joints and try to short across the lamp. I'm comfortable I can do that without getting a shock.

However, if that works, it doesn't solve the problem with the FS-2 glow bulb substitution unless I really get creative with a normally open SPST switch (for which there is no room in or on the fixture).

You are right - I was wrong - it is not a simple NE2 bulb - Long time since starters were common, and as a kid we used to canibalize starters to use the glow tube in place of NE2 bulbs for things like oscillators.

I never said there were NE2 bulbs inside. Learn to read.

No problem, I like being corrected so I can learn. Heck, I have no fear of terrorists because as a small boy, I had Irish nuns for teachers. They used tactile and extreme audio correction. I still have knots on my head dating from the middle of the last century.

TDD

Try another starter. What is the actual wattage of the lamp? You can use alligator clip jumpers to try another starter or to short across the connection for a second to heat the filaments in the lamp and see if it will start. You can use jumpers to try all sorts of parts in the circuit. The most value that you get from this is the learning experience. I've had people admonish me for working on something that's not worth the trouble because anyone could buy a new one for little money. I've even gone to thrift stores and bought junk so I could take it apart to learn how it works, I consider it entertainment.

TDD

The lamp is a G24q-2 dual tube 18W. The glob bulb I cannibalized was from a GE brand FS-2 starter still in a sealed bubble card. I will try to short across the connections when I get a little break in my work schedule.

No, do not use an NE-2. Use the bulb that can be gutted from an FS-2 starter.

A starter bulb has a bimetal strip that bends from the heat of the glow discharge in it, and temporarily shorts. This is explained in Sam Goldwasser's Fluorescent Lamp/Fixture FAQ. I have a copy (possibly older but definitely relevant) at:

The NE-2 is a neon lamp that is intended only to take current amounting to less than 1 milliamp. If it is substituted for a starter in an 18 watt

- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)