What size breaker and wire for a 5200W wall oven?

Who said it was? We aren't talking about history here, only what's in use today with the OP's oven.

I guess you think it's better to let people imply that 220V is a standard today in the USA, throw that into the mix of this oven, etc. Nothing personal, just that I think facts matter.

Reply to
trader_4
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Ralph Mowery laid this down on his screen :

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"Historically 110 V, 115 V and 117 V have been used at different times and places in North America. Mains power is sometimes spoken of as 110 V; however, 120 V is the nominal voltage."

The 208V figure comes from the voltage between two legs of the three phase supply. Usually, the entire three phases are used for the three phase applications or one of the legs to neutral (120V) is used for single phase applications.

Reply to
FromTheRafters

You can call it 110 or 120 interchangeably.

It hasn't actually varied in my lifetime, other than the normal day to day variation with load.

That's an RMS value, the peak is around 170.

Similarly when I worked in a factory the voltage was 440, 460, or 480, depending on who was talking, but it was all the same jolts.

Reply to
TimR

TimR expressed precisely :

Yes, but one of those would be wrong.

No "brownouts" then? Of course, we're not really talking about actual voltages here, but the nomenclature instead.

Yes, but it is best to stick to one measure throughout a discussion.

As long as everyone understands each other, then there is no harm. When using figures like that in engineering, everyone should use the 'correct' voltage in their computations.

Reply to
FromTheRafters

...

US spec's are given in ANSI C84.1-2011; you may be surprised to lean that first standardized effort by AIEE occurred as far back as 1898 the first joint meetings were held with the first accepted for publication in June, 1899. Revisions to it occurred in 1902, 1905 and 1911. The AC low voltage ratings at that time were established as 110,220,440 and 550 V.

I don't have the full history between then and the initial C84.1 adoption in (I believe) 1956 but as the Wikipedia article notes, there were intermediary periods of voltages between 110 and the current 120. Some history-type papers I've seen had data that by the late 1940s something like 90% of produced light bulbs were rated for 120V.

A link to the C84.1 Table 1

Reply to
dpb

People can call it whatever they want, but that isn't how the power industry operates and it just adds to the confusion. AFAIK, they have a voltage spec that they try to deliver and in all the places I've been around the USA, that's 120V, not 110. Apparently Ammana, the manufacturer of the oven in question agrees, because you'll see that they spec it at 240V, not 220V. Which is why I asked where anyone has seen 110V today as the norm in the USA?

Reply to
trader_4

Or how about it hasn't varied from what? 110? or 120? Here it's

120V at the panel, with minor variation.
Reply to
trader_4

Recently? I recall 110V at our house in Philadelphia, but that was 60 years ago. Going back to Westinghouse and his AC transformers I did read they were 110V output. With voltage drops at distances it could be low and thus, was boosted to a nominal 120V.

I am neither an electrical historian or engineer and I'm not going to search for cites. Nominal voltage today is 120 but can be lower with distance.

Reply to
Ed Pawlowski

That's all we're talking about, nominal voltage that the power company supplies today for the OP's oven and similar. Which again is why I asked if anyone has seen 110V in the USA and that's today, not in 1942. In my world it's 120/240V. And it does make a difference. If I saw

110V at my panel, I'd know something isn't right.
Reply to
trader_4

Or to put it another way, if we went to the panel in the homes of the people who are talking about 110/220, would we measure close to that or would we really see 120/240? I'm guessing the latter.

Reply to
trader_4

I showed an old phonograph motor to my Electricity & Electronics instructor back in 1970. It had a clear plastic strap around it with

110VAC in black stamped on it. He told me it was about twenty years old because back in 1950 or so 110 volts was the norm.

That sounds about right.

Reply to
FromTheRafters

That would be my guess. Of course you may see a minor variation of a volt or two. I've seen 135 at my house but after reporting it, power company corrected it.

Reply to
Ed Pawlowski

If you came to my house it would be 123.5 - 123.9

Reply to
gfretwell

You shouldn't make broad assumptions like that.

Reply to
Diesel

This discussion is almost like trying to call a 2x4 whatever it is now. Over the years the 2x4 has gotten smaller as the time passes by. The voltage has gotten higher. If you were to go to a lumber yard would you ask for a 2x4 or maybe something like a 1 3/4 x 3 1/2 or whatever they are now ?

I have a voltmeter on one of the outlets at my house that stays on all the time. It has been calibrated with instruments that were at one time set to the NIST. It has ranged from a low of 118 to a high of 124 at the times I have seen it. Most of the time it is around 121 to 123 volts.

Reply to
Ralph Mowery

Not even close to the same. 2x4's are called out as that in construction specs, though the actual dimensions are less. That is what they are referred to by standards, by sellers, by buyers, by people in the trade, who call them 2x4s but deliver the spec'd dimensions. You just saw the specs for the oven in this thread. It says 240V, not 220. Same with my oven when I put it in. The applicances one typically buys are spec'd at 120V, not 110V. And 120V is what the power company delivers, again to a spec. In other words the industry is using 240/120, mostly consistently and that is what you get when you measure at the panel, at least here. So, I don't see the need for the 110/220 confusion, it's just wrong.

Exactly. It's not in the neighborhood of 110V, because it's 120V power.

Reply to
trader_4

Well what should one assume, when it's a 240V oven being connected to a 240V service and you start talking about 220V? Why confuse people who don't even know how to hook up their oven, by using a voltage convention that is wrong and does not exist?

Reply to
trader_4

IIRC, converting RMS to peak, you multiply by the square root of 2 (I don't know why it's THAT). 120 * SQR(2) = 169.7056275, which most people would call 170. I needed to know that recently when selecting a diode (1N4003) for making a light half brightness.

I recently was talking to an older friend who was talking about a submersible well pump that uses 220. I've always said 240 for that. Also, I have measured the voltage here, and have almost exactly 120 and 240.

BTW, when doing the above math I remember by first class in trigonometry. Most of the time, the teacher was walking around showing people what buttons to press on their calculators. Then they would be asked for something like "the SIN of 80" and some student would read all

8 or more digits of the answer. There was almost nothing said about what trigonometry IS or what it could be used for.
Reply to
Mark Lloyd

When I took trig we did not have to worry about the buttons to push. It was either a slide rule or look them up in the CRC book.

For most electrical/electronic work 3 digits raised to whatever power of

10 was needed was about all that was ever needed. Most of the components were only 10 % few were 5 % and very few 1 % except for the test gear.
Reply to
Ralph Mowery

On 09/23/2016 1:01 PM, trader_4 wrote: ...

Like many things, it (110V referral, that is) hangs around because at one time it _was_ the standard and not all the people who grew up with it died off at the time it was changed and, besides, they had kids and those kids learned to call it what their folks did, and that continues to this day...what the actual is isn't really the issue or the cause either one; it's simply historical precedent.

Reply to
dpb

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