I wonder how it works.
I looked up naval jelly and it appears to be phosphoric acid.
The phosphoric acid converts reddish-brown iron(III) oxide,
Fe2O3 (rust) to black ferric phosphate, FePO4
The black ferric-phosphate coating can be scrubbed off,
leaving a fresh metal surface.
Here is the Henkel MSDS:
Loctite Naval Jelly Rust Dissolver
Henkel Corporation, 32150 Just Imagine Drive, Avon, Ohio 44011
Telephone: 800-624-7767 (emergency 800-424-9300)
Phosphoric acid (CAS 7664-38-2) 10-30%
Phosphate ester 1-5%
Isopropyl alcohol (CAS 67-63-0) 1-5%
Sulfuric acid (CAS 7664-93-9)0.1-1%
pH 1.5 - 2.5
Forms Hydrogen, by reaction with metals
The Loctite MSDS shows a slightly different composition:
Phosphoric acid (CAS 7664-38-2) 10-30%
2-Propanol (CAS 67-63-0 1-5%
Sulfuric acid (CAS 7664-93-9) 0.1% - 1%
Silicon dioxide (CAS 7631-86-9 ) 0.1% - 1%
Diiron trioxide (CAS 1309-37-1 ) 0.1% - 1%
Magnesium oxide (CAS 1309-48-4 ) 0.1% - 1%
Aluminum oxide, (CAS fibrous 1344-28-1 ) 0.1% - 1%
pH 1.5 - 2.5
The Loctite technical datasheet at the same location says
to brush it on metal, leave for 5 to 10 minutes, and wash off.
The Permatex version of naval jelly MSDS says:
(Amazon.com product link shortened)
10 Columbus Blvd., Hartford, Connecticut 06106, 877-376-2839
Permatex Naval Jelly Rust Dissolver is an acid based
thixotropic liquid for dissolving rust on iron and steel surfaces.
Having read all this - I wonder if pool accid (muriatic acid,
hydrochloric acid) will work (since I already have lots of that)?
Here is the short form of the explanation.
Naval jelly is plain old phosphoric acid (plus a wetting agent such
as plain old alcohol) which, when applied to my rusty tools, will
convert the rust to 'black powder', which I can then wash off.
Now I know how to clean up the rusty table where the tools lay:
1. Rust on the table
Yes. The concrete turned whitish where the phosphoric acid landed
after dripping off the table.
While pool acid is not recommended for hand tools (it pickles them
but apparently makes the result MORE susceptible to rusting), it seems
to work wonderfully for plastic tables.
Tomorrow I will experiment with the following on that rust and on
the lime of my shower stall.
1. Vinegar (aka ketchup)
2. LimeAway (sulfamic acid)
3. Lemon juice (citric acid)
4. Coca cola (weak phosphoric acid)
5. Naval Jelly (strong phosphoric acid)
6. We already know muriatic acid works fantastically on table rust!
"Jon Danniken" wrote in message
On 02/22/2013 03:05 PM, Danny D. wrote:
HCl is just going to cause rust. I use muriatic to dissolve
galvanizing (for welding), and all of the ferrous objects near the
bottle end up getting very rusty.
Jon I have found that to be true also. Used muriatic acid in my shop to
remove some alkali from an item and the fumes rusted all the tools nearby..
I don't think using acid is good at first. It would make a good last step
to get into holes. If you leave navel jelly on, it with start to build big
black marks, much like rust converter. I've done this on car rust spots. It
will not rust further once the conversion takes place. Yo can buy
phosphoric at the auto store. It's a paint prep.
Light rust can be taken off with scotchbrite and soapy water.
On Fri, 22 Feb 2013 23:05:54 +0000, Danny D. wrote:
Had to look up 'thixotropic'.
Certain gels or fluids that are thick (viscous) under normal
conditions flow (become thin, less viscous) over time when shaken,
agitated, or otherwise stressed. They then take a fixed time to
return to a more viscous state.
< warning >... RANDOM rust removal ideas follow ... < / warning>
Seems like the naval jelly & steel wool win out for removing the rust,
and then you guys add an oil (I'm not sure why WD-40 over any other oil).
Looking up what else works, I see there is some discussion as
to whether hydrochloric acid (HCL) or muriatic pool acid would
work since HCl is used to pickle steel (and I have gallons of HCl):
Apparently Hydrochloric acid + iron yields iron chloride.
But, if you don't wash all the iron chloride out, water + iron chloride
in a warm environment will regenerate iron oxide (rust) + HCl.
On the other hand, phosphoric acid + iron yields iron phosphate, which,
even if you leave it on the metal, won't go back to iron oxide.
So the phosphoric acid is better than hydrochloric acid for rust removal.
I screwed up when I left the lid off a container of HCl setting on my
shop bench. Two days later when I went back in the shop the fumes had
caused every iron tool hanging on the pegboard to have a film of rust
similar to your toolbox. HCl never comes inside any more.
Now back on topic or closer to topic... I need to see if I have any
naval jelly around because I could use it right now. I see a bit of
rust on a bottom of a built in oven.
Just in case, is naval jelly sold in hardware stores? And I'll
probably need some heat resistant paint for touch up on the oven (if I
want to be picky about it).
I'd try wire brush and WD-40. Good an answer as any.
Used to be you could buy rust remover jelly.
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
Toolbox was left outside for a couple of months (forgot about it).
What's the best way to get this surface rust off?
Do you just wipe and soak in oil?
Do you use a special formulation?
How do you generally handle surface rust on tools?
On Fri, 22 Feb 2013 15:34:21 -0500, Stormin Mormon wrote:
So the two answers were wire brush & phosphoric acid to remove the
rust, and then WD-40 as a rust preventive.
Speaking of rust preventive, do you generally put WD-40 on your
tools or just those that have been wire brushed?
Or can I substitute motor oil for WD-40 (I never understood WD-40).
I ask because I never oiled tools before also.
Is the oil needed because the wire brush removed a thin layer
There's a better alternative these days: EvapoRust. This stuff is
absolutely astounding. It's one of those genuine advances, like the
discovery of germs.
The stuff is literally like magic. Drop your parts in this non-toxic, water
soluble liquid, leave it overnight, and it's as though there was never any
rust on the parts to begin with. A very nice side benefit is that your
original surface texture remains undamaged, unlike wire-brushing.
I've used Naval Jelly for years, but this stuff just totally outclasses it.
The only drawback is that the part you're trying to de-rust needs to be
completely submerged in EvapoRust. You cannot paint it on a surface the way
you would with Naval Jelly, so de-rusting fenders and the like is not
possible unless you have a stock tank full of EvapoRust.
As for rust-preventive treatment afterwards, just a wipe with motor oil is
Googling, I find a recommendation at, of all places, "The Rust Store":
The MSDS for Evapo-Rust says absolutely nothing about what's in it:
As for how it works:
Apparently the synthetic chelating agent of Evapo-Rust removes the
iron in iron oxide by creating a ferric sulfate complex, and sometimes
there is a black residue from the carbon in the steel.
Googling some more, I find Evapo-Rust is "patent pending" by
Harris International, so if we can find the patent, we can figure
out what that synthetic chelating agent is.
The trademark was apparently registered by Daubert Cromwell, LLC in July 2009.
Googling also found "bio-rust" which may be the same thing.
BTW, some say molasses works the same way:
Which might be why the patent was apparently NOT GRANTED even though
it was filed in 2000.
Seems that WD-40 is the word of choice for those that don't know any beter.
Cures moles, colds, and tight buttholes.
Motor oil is fine. Most any oil will do to keep the rust down. The oil
provides a barrier from the tool to the air and water. There is a product
made by LPS that is made to help prevent rust. I think it is called LPS2.
The best way is not to let the tools get wet, and wipe them down every year
or so if you do not use them very often.
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