What's a good way to get rid of rain surface rust on tools left outside

Toolbox was left outside for a couple of months (forgot about it).

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What's the best way to get this surface rust off?

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Do you just wipe and soak in oil? Do you use a special formulation?

How do you generally handle surface rust on tools?

Reply to
Danny D.
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Steel wool and WD40

Reply to
harry

I'd try wire brush and WD-40. Good an answer as any.

Used to be you could buy rust remover jelly.

Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus

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What's the best way to get this surface rust off?

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Do you just wipe and soak in oil? Do you use a special formulation?

How do you generally handle surface rust on tools?

Reply to
Stormin Mormon

I wonder how it works.

I looked up naval jelly and it appears to be phosphoric acid.

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H3PO4 The phosphoric acid converts reddish-brown iron(III) oxide, Fe2O3 (rust) to black ferric phosphate, FePO4 The black ferric-phosphate coating can be scrubbed off, leaving a fresh metal surface.

Here is the Henkel MSDS:

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Loctite Naval Jelly Rust Dissolver Henkel Corporation, 32150 Just Imagine Drive, Avon, Ohio 44011 Telephone: 800-624-7767 (emergency 800-424-9300) Phosphoric acid (CAS 7664-38-2) 10-30% Phosphate ester 1-5% Isopropyl alcohol (CAS 67-63-0) 1-5% Polysaccharide 1-5% Sulfuric acid (CAS 7664-93-9)0.1-1% Water >50% pH 1.5 - 2.5 Forms Hydrogen, by reaction with metals

The Loctite MSDS shows a slightly different composition:

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Phosphoric acid (CAS 7664-38-2) 10-30% 2-Propanol (CAS 67-63-0 1-5% Sulfuric acid (CAS 7664-93-9) 0.1% - 1% Silicon dioxide (CAS 7631-86-9 ) 0.1% - 1% Diiron trioxide (CAS 1309-37-1 ) 0.1% - 1% Magnesium oxide (CAS 1309-48-4 ) 0.1% - 1% Aluminum oxide, (CAS fibrous 1344-28-1 ) 0.1% - 1% pH 1.5 - 2.5

The Loctite technical datasheet at the same location says to brush it on metal, leave for 5 to 10 minutes, and wash off.

The Permatex version of naval jelly MSDS says:

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10 Columbus Blvd., Hartford, Connecticut 06106, 877-376-2839 Permatex Naval Jelly Rust Dissolver is an acid based thixotropic liquid for dissolving rust on iron and steel surfaces.

Having read all this - I wonder if pool accid (muriatic acid, hydrochloric acid) will work (since I already have lots of that)?

Googling ...

Reply to
Danny D.

So the two answers were wire brush & phosphoric acid to remove the rust, and then WD-40 as a rust preventive.

Speaking of rust preventive, do you generally put WD-40 on your tools or just those that have been wire brushed?

Or can I substitute motor oil for WD-40 (I never understood WD-40).

I ask because I never oiled tools before also.

Is the oil needed because the wire brush removed a thin layer of oxide?

Reply to
Danny D.

< warning >... RANDOM rust removal ideas follow ... < / warning>

Seems like the naval jelly & steel wool win out for removing the rust, and then you guys add an oil (I'm not sure why WD-40 over any other oil).

Looking up what else works, I see there is some discussion as to whether hydrochloric acid (HCL) or muriatic pool acid would work since HCl is used to pickle steel (and I have gallons of HCl):

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Apparently Hydrochloric acid + iron yields iron chloride.

But, if you don't wash all the iron chloride out, water + iron chloride in a warm environment will regenerate iron oxide (rust) + HCl.

On the other hand, phosphoric acid + iron yields iron phosphate, which, even if you leave it on the metal, won't go back to iron oxide.

So the phosphoric acid is better than hydrochloric acid for rust removal.

Reply to
Danny D.

Rust Removal using Electrolysis

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Reply to
Zen

"Danny D." wrote in news:kg8tqg$60g$2 @speranza.aioe.org:

There's a better alternative these days: EvapoRust. This stuff is absolutely astounding. It's one of those genuine advances, like the discovery of germs.

The stuff is literally like magic. Drop your parts in this non-toxic, water soluble liquid, leave it overnight, and it's as though there was never any rust on the parts to begin with. A very nice side benefit is that your original surface texture remains undamaged, unlike wire-brushing.

I've used Naval Jelly for years, but this stuff just totally outclasses it.

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The only drawback is that the part you're trying to de-rust needs to be completely submerged in EvapoRust. You cannot paint it on a surface the way you would with Naval Jelly, so de-rusting fenders and the like is not possible unless you have a stock tank full of EvapoRust.

As for rust-preventive treatment afterwards, just a wipe with motor oil is fine.

Reply to
Tegger

The problem with electrolysis is that the result will rust quicker (unless you protect it).

Here is a naval jelly "secrets of surface rust removal revealed"

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Reply to
Ripple Whine

Seems that WD-40 is the word of choice for those that don't know any beter. Cures moles, colds, and tight buttholes.

Motor oil is fine. Most any oil will do to keep the rust down. The oil provides a barrier from the tool to the air and water. There is a product made by LPS that is made to help prevent rust. I think it is called LPS2.

The best way is not to let the tools get wet, and wipe them down every year or so if you do not use them very often.

Reply to
Ralph Mowery

"Danny D." wrote in news:kg8v91$a5m$ snipped-for-privacy@speranza.aioe.org:

Forget that. EvapoRust is what you want. Amazing stuff. Seriously.

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Reply to
Tegger

Hi Oren,

Here is the short form of the explanation.

Naval jelly is plain old phosphoric acid (plus a wetting agent such as plain old alcohol) which, when applied to my rusty tools, will convert the rust to 'black powder', which I can then wash off.

Now I know how to clean up the rusty table where the tools lay:

  1. Rust on the table
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  1. Pool acid on the rust
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  2. All the rust on the table gone
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  1. New concrete spots are the result! :(
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Reply to
Danny D.

Harry:

You could probably save yourself some money here.

Oren's recommendation of Loctite's Naval Jelly Rust Dissolver utilizes a well known chemical reaction between rust and phosphoric acid that converts the rust into a black compound called Ferric Phosphate or FePO4.

Here's what Wikipedia says about using Phosphoric acid to convert rust to Ferric Phosphate:

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'Phosphoric acid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia'

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Rust removal: Phosphoric acid may be used as a "rust converter", by direct application to rusted iron, steel tools, or surfaces. The phosphoric acid converts reddish-brown iron(III) oxide, Fe2O3 (rust) to black ferric phosphate, FePO4.

"Rust converter" is sometimes a greenish liquid suitable for dipping (in the same sort of acid bath as is used for pickling metal), but it is more often formulated as a gel, commonly called "naval jelly". It is sometimes sold under other names, such as "rust remover" or "rust killer". As a thick gel, it may be applied to sloping, vertical, or even overhead surfaces.

After treatment, the black ferric-phosphate coating can be scrubbed off, leaving a fresh metal surface. Multiple applications of phosphoric acid may be required to remove all rust. The black phosphate coating can also be left in place, where it will provide moderate further corrosion resistance (such protection is also provided by the superficially similar Parkerizing and blued electrochemical conversion coating processes).

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So, I took a look at the MSDS for Loctite Naval Jelly Rust Dissolver, and sure enough it's mostly phosphoric acid. It's got 10 to 30 percent phosphoric acid in it. It's got some other stuff in it too, but those other things are to gel it so that it can be applied to vertical surfaces and overhead:

'Household Products Database - Health and Safety Information on Household Products'

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Now, phosphoric acid is commonly used as the active ingredient in toilet bowl cleaners. If you just go down to your local home center or hardware store and look at the toilet bowl cleaners they sell, many of them will give a phosphoric acid content, or have a warning saying that it contains phosphoric acid.

Here's a phosphoric acid based toilet bowl cleaner being marketed by a company called "Iowa Prison Industries":

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If Loctite Naval Jelly Rust Dissolver has a phosphoric acid content of

10 to 30 percent, you can use any phosphoric acid toilet bowl cleaner with a phosphoric acid content between 10 and 30 percent to get identical results as you'd get with the Loctite product.

Many toilet bowl cleaners will contain hydrochloric acid, but you want to use phosphoric acid for converting rust into that stable black compound, ferric phosphate.

Also, EVERY janitorial supply store listed under "Janitorial Equipment & Supplies" will, in all certainty, sell a phosphoric acid toilet bowl cleaner you can use on your tools.

Phosphoric acid is a mild acid. It's about the same strength as CLR. It won't harm your tools if you leave it on too long, but doing that won't remove any more rust. Once the rust turns black, just wash the remaining phosphoric acid off your tools with water and dry immediately with a rag or paper towels.

Rubbing oil over the ferric phosphate won't do anything, and it'll only make dirt stick to your tools. I would leave out the business about applying oil to anything because as soon as you use that tool, the oil film will get wiped/rubbed off anyway. Just keep your tools dry.

Reply to
nestork

Oren wrote in news:oi4gi8pmsb6ogvubtlc51bk30ch0ngou13@

4ax.com:

I clicked the link that said "Click here to read more about Evapo-Rust rust remover", and it told me this:

"How Evapo-rust affects coatings

"EVAPO-RUST is highly recommended by the NRA gunsmithing school and is utilized by FBI, CIA, NATO and other law enforcement and forensics agencies. EVAPO-RUST is perfect for removing oxide weapon finishes such as Bluing, Parkerizing, Zinc Phosphate, and Browning.

"Anodizing, Cobalt Tungsten Carbide, Powder Coating, Chrome, Nickel, Paint, and most other coatings will not be removed as long as they do not contain oxides. EVAPO-RUST will not harm lead or solder points."

So it appears that if your barrels have an oxide finish (bluing, etc), Evapo-rust will take the bluing off. In other words, NOT safe for oxide finishes. It appears that Evapo-Rust will remove ANY form of oxide.

Reply to
Tegger

HCl is just going to cause rust. I use muriatic to dissolve galvanizing (for welding), and all of the ferrous objects near the bottle end up getting very rusty.

Jon

Reply to
Jon Danniken

I screwed up when I left the lid off a container of HCl setting on my shop bench. Two days later when I went back in the shop the fumes had caused every iron tool hanging on the pegboard to have a film of rust similar to your toolbox. HCl never comes inside any more.

Reply to
Red

You're correct. My dad was a old builder/carpenter and had naval jelly around. I presume for the rust on tools? Gee, you're a pretty smart fella except when it comes to guns .

Reply to
Doug

I haven't had a chance to try it, but Rick Dale of Ricks restoration recently said he uses apple cider vinegar to remove rust. Give it a try. Its cheap and can't hurt anything

Reply to
ChairMan

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I don't think using acid is good at first. It would make a good last step to get into holes. If you leave navel jelly on, it with start to build big black marks, much like rust converter. I've done this on car rust spots. It will not rust further once the conversion takes place. Yo can buy phosphoric at the auto store. It's a paint prep. Light rust can be taken off with scotchbrite and soapy water.

Greg

Reply to
gregz

No.

Now back on topic or closer to topic... I need to see if I have any naval jelly around because I could use it right now. I see a bit of rust on a bottom of a built in oven.

Just in case, is naval jelly sold in hardware stores? And I'll probably need some heat resistant paint for touch up on the oven (if I want to be picky about it).

Reply to
Doug

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