What is the difference between ground and neutral from the perspective of the wall outlet working backward to the power company? (2025 Update)

Over the last 72 years? The vast majority of them, that's for sure. And it seems that the lady in question here has a grounded three prong receptacle based on the questions asked and that it's not supposed to have an additional ground wire run to a cold water pipe.

I seriously doubt washing machine manufacturers disregarded NEC. See the example that follows.

I can _probably_ even dig out of the

But we're talking about what some lady has TODAY and from the questions, it appears to be a grounded three wire receptacle we're talking about.

.Dad

Here is an example from a GE owner's manual:

CIRCUIT – Individual, properly polarized and grounded

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But, the conversation had morphed to a digression and remberances of what used to be, no longer really related to the initial question...or at least that's the part of the conversation I was referring to when others noted there has been that grounding connection supplied and, I, like them, am absolutely positive I remember the manufacturer suggestion to attach to the water pipe. Used to have a little tag on the supplied lead come with the machine.

By now, most certainly have been but I expect if one could actually go look, one might be surprised at how many there might still be out there where the house either hasn't sold or if sold not subject to re-inspection that would actually require an update to original wiring.

This house is >100 yr old and other than Dad rewired it when they did it over in late 70s, up until then it still was 2-wire and I know for a fact the washer and dryer were both grounded that way until then...I remember the clamp around the cold water pipe very well from my "yute" in what was then grandparents' basement.

Again, you're talking now and relatively recently; them days was different era...and I'm sure the actual instructions even then "required" the same thing but the appliance vendor cannot force the end user to follow those instructions...so at that time they did the next best thing they could.

Since then, as you note the landscape has changed and the majority have had to update old installations and more recent are already ok so the need has pretty much gone away.

But, similar thing is still true for the 3-wire vis a vis 4-wire dryer connection...Code requires four now, but how many (like here) are still using the 3-wire and changed the pigtail rather than the outlet when purchased new dryer?

I pulled the instalation guide for a Sears Kenmore washer I bought back in 1987. It shows that if you only have a 2 wire receptical to use an adapter for the 3 pin cord from the machine. Then it says that you must use a # 18 or larger wire to the cold water pipe. It shows a screw to attach the wire to. Then it shows that if you have anything in the cold water line, it must be jumpered by a # 4 wire.

NO - never did. DRIERS did years ago - NOT washers

Mabee referring to installation in older home without properly grounded 3 wire outlets????????

The last 3 I've owned have not - and that goes back 40 years

But that is here in Canada - not in the undeveloped states of america. (that has GOT to be the meaning of the USA, as they are sure as hell NOT United - - - -)

On 7/29/2019 12:26 PM, Clare Snyder wrote: ...

Beneath you, Clare... :(

But, try picking on us from the outside and see what happens.

Not exactly. Micky told the OP that the washer under discussion needed a ground wire from the frame to a cold water pipe. And if they had followed that or someone else had decided it was a good idea, like Fretwell pointed out, the fault in the washer, assuming there is one, could have energized not only the washer case but parts of the water system, eg that bath faucets. No one knows what sections have plastic and if you have someone doing it that doesn't understand what they are doing, it could make it worse.

..or

You can still do that today, it's code compliant for receptacles wired before the code changed.

A lot of folks at NFPA are trying to get "Bonding" used for the grounding conductor.

I don't recall dryers ever needing a seperate ground wire to th ewater pipe in the US. They did have a strap where the wires come into the dryer. If a 3 wire plug was used, you connected the frame to the neutral of the 3 wires comming into the dryer with this strap. If a 4 wire cord you did not connect the frame to the neutral, but to the ground wire of the 4 wire plug.

It was the washing machines that recommended the ground wire to the cold water pipe and frame of the machine just as I mentioned above from just looking at an old instalation booklet I just threw out as I no longer have that machine.

All but 2 states are united (connected) Alaska and Hawaii. The states are like some families. They may even fight with each other,but let an outsider start something and see how quickly they join. Like in WW2.

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Well, that _started_ the digression, yes...but at least one other had already commented about the "used to be" essentially independent when I added the above...

It's immaterial pretty-much in the scheme of the world's affairs...

I can still remember when washing machines only has 2 wire plugs - or even a kick-start iron horse.

But "bonding" is the tem for connecting neutral to ground and tying all grounds in a grounding system together.

Exactly and that is what the green wire does. (EGC) It is all part of the "grounding system", or that is the current thinking in some circles. Not to be confused with the "grounding electrode system".

You know what's interesting? What happened to Arlen? Usually one of his threads, he's half the posts and it becomes a 300 post thread. This time, it's been a one hit wonder. Maybe he got electrocuted? Or died mounting tires in his driveway in 100F heat?

I was thinking about this again and I wonder why the manufacturers don't just tell you that if you have a two prong receptacle, another acceptable option is to install a GFCI receptacle? That would be a lot easier than running a new circuit with ground.

On 7/31/2019 11:49 AM, trader_4 wrote: ...

Their lawyers haven't the background to know they exist yet seems plausible?

BTW, I did check -- that new(ish) GE washer _does_ have a green screw on the back of the case as I was thinking I recalled--I remember there being a ground wire supplied, though.

I also looked on the new ones sitting on the floor at Menards when was there the other day -- none of those did have the provision so seems to have now gone away indeed.

I don't recall just when we did buy this one -- within 10 years though I'm certain altho the local Sears catalog store from whence it came has been gone about 3-4 by now. Can't keep track of time any more--things go by way too quickly it seems--now what the folks meant when we were kids and couldn't understand the concept. That's a universal experience/truth too, it seems.

A GFCI receptacle provides some of the same protection as ground. It does NOT provide ground.

BTW, I never would have believed it, but some people claim a GFCI provides ground.