What is the difference between ground and neutral from the perspective of the wall outlet working backward to the power company? (2025 Update)

I'm missing your point. What is it I don't get, specifically?

If you mean ONLY a ground rod I might agree with you. This is why code EVERYWHERE requires a contiguous safety ground. True "ground return" systems have been eliminated in all but a very few rural electrification areas in the American Mid-west and Alberta - and some parts of the "outback" down under as of 2012. A short to ground WILL trip a breaker in any code compliant installation.

The ground rod functions PRIMARILY as lightning protection, but is also a "local ground reference" tying the safety ground potential more closely to "earth ground" potential.

The information on the spgsamerica.com site is incomplete and therefore inaccurate.. Look at

Interesting reading at

That is the function of the main bonding jumper in the service disconnect enclosure. It bonds the Equipment Grounding Conductor to the X0 in the transformer and provides that fault path to trip a breaker. For the last several cycles that receptacle the washer is plugged into will be GFCI protected if it is within 5' of the laundry tub. There are also AFCI requirements that will provide GFP level ground fault protection (30ma) in the laundry for the last 2 cycles. The code is there, it is only the field that has not caught up.

BTW, there is suppposed to be a separate wire from a cabinet screw in the washing machine metal case to a ground, often clamped onto a cold water pipe (assuming they aren't plastic. It has to be cold, not hot, which wends its way through the water heater.).

This seems to me like the part of installation easiest to forget, because there is no jack for that wire in the machine and no wire dangling from the machine until you attach one. And lots of people install washing machines without reading the directions.

But I'd make sure it's there and I'd put it on if it's not. I don't know what happens when there is already a problem and the missing wire is installed, but that's the way it should be.

Connecting to a cold water pipe these days is as likely to energize the faucet as it is to actually bond anything. There is just too much plastic in plumbing to count on any pipe being grounded.

Not true in North Ameica - where is this throretical washing machine located??

I didn't want to argue with Micky but that is usually the dryer and it was a way around that 3 wire plug, as border line illegal as it was. Typically you attached the green wire to the center screw in the washer receptacle cover. The NEC has not talked about grounding to cold water pipes since we were wearing tie dyed T shirts and bell bottoms. (72 code? Maybe 75?)

Sorry about that. I guess I was thinking about a washing machine from that time frame.

It suddenly occurs to me that my own machine has no separate ground wire, and didn't when I moved in. Is it supposed to?

Mostly in Micky's head, mostly.

We are supposed to believe that all the washing machines being sold are supposed to have an additional ground wire run over to a cold water pipe, that the install instructions tell you that, but no connection for it is provided by the manufacturers? WTF? Maybe that's how the lady screwed hers, she ran a drill through the case and into the wiring.

And lots of people

And some people claim there are things in the instructions that are not there.

That's for sure. You've made several posts now, but completely ignore the essence of the questions asked, which go to the fact that aside from some apparent fault in the washing machine, it is clearly not properly grounded. And no, that's not because of some missing wire from the washing machine to a water pipe. There is either a serious problem with the circuit wiring or with the cord being grounded to the washer metal case.

No, according to code for a very long time, AFAIK forever, it should not be. And if you did, it could extend the hot case of the washing machine to your faucets and bathtub.

A good ground is kind of nice to have in case a hot lead somehow manages to come into contact with the washing machine cabinet. Yah, I know, not very likely but...it's for the kids.

Just to clarify, there is something seriously wrong with either that circuit or with the cord not being grounded to the metal case. That has been covered in codes for fifty plus years, and make it impossible for the metal case to become hot, unless something is seriously wrong with the grounding. Those additional protections are in newer codes and older systems aren't required to be updated.

AFAIK, there never was a washing machine of that timeframe or any timeframe, where they told you to run a separate wire between a non-existent ground terminal in the washing machine and a cold water pipe. He's telling you the NEC hasn't talked about grounding anything to cold water pipes for a long time. I've never seen any washing machine that required anything beyond the cord and plug provided.

Good grief. First you told the OP that it needed it, now you're asking if it's supposed to have it, after having been clearly told NO. Silly Democrat.

Micky was referring to one f these ...

Using the correct terminology:

• Grounded Conductor * Grounding Conductor

The former is bonded to ground at the service entrance (or pole pig) and provides the so-called "neutral" conductor for the two current carrying conductors in a normal 240VAC north american residential supply on 120VAC circuits.

The latter is a dedicated conductor connected to a grounding electrode at the service entrance and provides an emergency safety path. Typically metal parts of an appliance are bonded to the grounding conductor to prevent people from becoming the ground path if the metal parts are accidentally energized.

I do remember Whirlpool washers from around 1980 had a green ground wire attached to the cabinet and the other end was to be attached to an electrical ground. This was in addition to the 3-prong plug.

Our 2018 Whirlpool horizontal axis machine does not have the additional green ground wire.

I bought a new washing machine about a month ago. Looking over the instructions it mentions the machine is to be grounded . That is by the

There is one minor mention of a code or permit for grounding. It simply states to check with a qualified electrician if you are not sure the washer is properly grounded.

On 7/29/2019 5:42 AM, trader_4 wrote: ...

...

Au contraire, good buddy!

"Way back when" they all had an external ground connection supplied with vendor instructions to attach to electrical ground.

That began when there was 2-wire service and continued well past NEC changes requiring 3-wire as the existing base of existing was the majority of installed base.

I'm pretty sure the GE bought just a few years ago still has the connecting point supplied with it but I'd have to go pull it out from the wall to confirm.

Looks like code required three prong, grounded receptacles starting in 1947 for washing machines and similar wet locations.

That would be something, if it did. But even if it did, I bet there is nothing in the install instructions that tells you to ground it to a water pipe under any circumstances.