What is FOUR wire Triplex for?

[George]

It must have been the other "trader" who argued the point that it was the neutral...

[gfretwell]

We are well over the "thousand words" a picture would have avoided.

I have seen and worked with hundreds of service drops and I have never seen one where the bare wire was not the grounded conductor.

Rarely they may use an insulated neutral conductor in an (underground) service lateral but the majority of them use a bare wire too,

[trader4]

Now you're add "3 wires are black insulated, the other is the bare neutral. "

So there is an "it" and it's the "the 4th wire is not connected to anything. "

So we have 3+1. Now maybe YOU are a mind reader,' but it's not clear what the 4th unconnected wire he's referring to is. I took it to mean the bare wire. gfretw thinks it's 3 phase and all are actually connected.

You, well, it's not clear what you think because all you seem more interested in is trying to pick apart my interpretation, which I believe is a perfectly reasonable one, because the OP was unclear on what the 4th wire is that he's referring to.

[clare]

The bare wire is the "suspension" cable..

[dpb]

On 1/13/2013 10:05 AM, [e-mail] wrote: ...

...

Well, if it were physically connected to the structure/pole, w/o it being electrically connected it would be pretty clear it wasn't an electrical conductor wouldn't it? And, then it would be even more unlikely to be said it was "unconnected".

--

[homeowner]

Yep, the bare wire is the support, but it's also the neutral. There are

3 insulated wires wrapped around the bare one, not the usual two. And yea, as another person said, it's not really TRIPLEX, because that would be 3 wires. I'm not sure what they call the 4 conductor stuff, but it's the same type of cable. The way it's connected, it's a 240V feed. So my guess is that either they had 3 phase feeding that store in the past, or else they just used the cable they had on hand when they installed it. It's been there awhile, the building is probably close to 100 years old. I noticed it because there is a deck on the building next door, and I was on the deck last week. The entrance head is probably only 12 feet up from that deck, it's easy to see the unused wire. I tend to notice stuff like that, after doing construction most of my life.

[DerbyDad03]

Your original post is unclear. When you say the 4th wire is not connected to anything, are you referring to the bare wire?

If so, then I gotta repeat the question trader4 asked:

How can it be a neutral if it's not connected to anything? Furthermore, a neutral carries current and therefore must be insulated. How can you call a bare wire not connected to anything a neutral?

If it's not connected it's neither a hot, a neutral or a ground. It's just a wire. If it's bare, then it wouldn't be a neutral even if it was connected to something.

[trader4]

He just clarified that 4th unconnected wire is one of the insulated conductors. So, like he says, if that is what;s there, then it's apparently a 240V service that might have been 3 phase before.

[Nate Nagel]

3+1 wires sounds to me like three phase service which would be common for a large industrial service. but as others have said the bare would in fact be a neutral/ground conductor and would in fact be connected.

nate

[gfretwell]

I would still like to see a picture. If that messenger is truly "not connected to anything" (not bonded) it is a NESC violation and a safety hazard, no lineman would allow to happen.since they are the ones who are in danger,

I bet that when we actually look at it we find it is crimped onto the strand between poles where everything else is bonded. There won't usually be a direct connection to the transformer and maybe that was the confusion.

[trader4]

In his second post he said that the bare was both the support and the neutral, just as you thought from the beginning. What is not connected is apparently one of the insulated conductors, though even in the new post he doesn't directly say that. But since he said the "4th wire" isn't connected, that's the only possibility left. So it sounds like it could have been a 3 phase that was later converted to 240.

[DerbyDad03]

I guess I'm missing where he specifically "clarified that 4th unconnected wire is one of the insulated conductors".

Did I miss a post?

[trader4]

He made two posts. "Yep, the bare wire is the support, but it's also the neutral. There are 3 insulated wires wrapped around the bare one, not the usual two. "

If it's the neutral, then it has to be connected. The only remaining possibility is that one of the three insulated conductors is the unconnected 4th wire.

[DerbyDad03]

Right, I saw that second post.

We're still taking his word for it that it's the neutral. Even you said: "If it's the neutral, then it has to be connected."

As long as we're still starting our sentences with "If" there's still room for confusion.

I rented a house in the Outer Banks this summer and saw where there were 2 insulated wires and a bare wire coming from the pole. At first it appeared to me that the bare wire was only the support and that there as no ground (which made me curious), but closer investigation showed it to be the ground also. That was the first time I had seen a set up like that.

Where's the picture (or a more detailed description) from the OP that will clarify all this?

[Ralph Mowery]

were 2 insulated wires and a bare wire coming from the pole. At first it appeared to me that the bare wire was only the support and that there as no ground (which made me curious), but closer investigation showed it to be the ground also. That was the first time I had seen a

Not sure what the standard is now in North Carolina,but most of the houses I have looked at that seems to be the standard. Two hot wires (insulated) and a bare wire for the neutral that also seems to be the support line.

[trader4]

t"

He also said that the way it's connected, ie with one of the 4 wires unconnected, it looks like a 240V service. With a 240V service, you have two hots and a neutral, all of which are connected. Yes, he didn't come right out and say that it's one of the insulated conductors that is unconnected, but it's the only interpretation that makes sense.

That is the classic case. It's how alll the overhead services I've seen are done. They use the base wire as both support and neutral.

About 80% of this thread would have been eliminated if the description would have been clearer. How hard is it to just say "One of the 3 insulated conductors is not connected."

[homeowner]

How much clearer can I make this..... One of the insulated wires is NOT connected to anything, (on either end of the cable). It's not taped or capped in any way, it's just there doing nothing. This might be a code violation, I'm not sure, since the wire does nothing. I'd still think it should be capped somehow. But if this is code, I'd think the Po Co would have capped it.

The bare wire IS the neutral and is connected that way. The other 2 insulated wires are connected in the normal manner that any 240V overhead cable would be.

[homeowner]

I've only lived here for about 12 years. The building that cable feeds was once a clothing store in the 50's. then a JC Penneys, (in the 1960s

- 80s) then it was supposed to be a become a bar/restaurant, (early

2000s) with a dance hall, but after some renovation, the owner moved, and the place was never opened. Now it's unoccupied. The building is likely close to 100 years old. The entire downtown consists of building of that age, except for a few newer ones. My guess is that the wires may have been 3 phase, but I really dont know why a clothing store or Penneys would need 3 phase. But I'm wondering if that cable was added in the early 2000's when that bar/restarant was supposed to open. I could see the need for 3 phase for walk in coolers and other industrial food preparation equipment. It's hard to tell the age of that cable, but it's older looking, but not cracked or bad looking. I'd take a wild guess that the power company installed it for future upgrade to 3 phase for that bar/rest. Just a guess!!!!

Prior to that 1950s clothing store, I'm not sure what the building was used for, and so far no one else in town seems to remember, except that maybe it was a clothing store going way back to when it was built. It's a large 3 story building for a small town, but would be small for a big city. Typical turn of the century store front with large glass windows. It's supposed to be in pretty good shape for its age, but the guy just leaves it vacant and dont try to sell it. Apparently he must think it's going to be a "gold mine" in later years. Who knows????

[homeowner]

I did *NOT* say that..... Learn to read for comprehension!!!

[DerbyDad03]

As far as I can tell, this is the "A large store downtown has a heavy FOUR wire triplex feeding the building. 3 wires are black insulated, the other is the bare neutral. The thing that caught my attention to it, is that the 4th wire is not connected to anything."

S "Yep, the bare wire is the support, but it's also the neutral. There are 3 insulated wires wrapped around the bare one, not the usual two."

Once again, no mention of which of the 4 wires is not connected.

You had the advantage of a visual, all we had were your words, which were not very clear. Had you referred to the "4th wire" as "I noticed it because there is a deck on the building next door, and I was on the deck last week. The entrance head is probably only 12 feet up from that deck, it's easy to see the unused wire."

From where we're sitting, all that we can envision is the end you told us about: The entrance head. You never mentioned the other end of the cable until now.