Water Bill

Nonsense. Corporations existed for seven decades with more stringent restrictions and taxes than today and we did just fine.

Never recovered from _what_ exactly? From the embargo and associated economic malaise? Certainly not from the impeachment/resignation, which nobody gave a shit about after 6 months.

Reply to
Scott Lurndal
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Evidence?

Funny, originally stocks were simply ownership in a company and profits were distributed as dividends. The secondary market for equities perhaps shouldn't be used as the primary vehicle for returns on investment; return the profits directly to the shareholders.

Reply to
Scott Lurndal

It's never been different, shares always represented a ownership stake in a company and what they do with profits has always been up to the company. It would be might stupid for companies that are growing to be handing out the profits when they can put those back into the business and generate more revenue and profits.

The secondary market for

Clearly you don't understand stocks and business. Yet you want to fix what isn't broken and is working extremely well. The companies that pay much of the profit out in dividend are fixed, old, limited ability to grow and use the money themselves eg utilities.

Reply to
trader_4

In a time when the US ruled the world and competition wasn't as stiff. To burden US industry today would just destroy our competitive position.

That I agree with you on.

Reply to
trader_4

We were not in a global economy then. There was no real competition and moving your operation offshore was much harder, if not impossible.

It started the political divide that still exists today and that was also when we decided deficits no longer mattered. The only thing that is holding down double digit inflation is the Fed's thumb on the scale and that can't last much longer. The only thing that is holding up the economy these days is the blind faith and credit of the US. I am not going to say Trump did any better but it is a 45 year old problem, not helped by a forced resignation and what will now be two impeachments. That does not bode well for the republic. The day the world markets decide we are really just another banana republic selling worthless paper, interest rates will spike and we won't be able to cover them with our revenue. We take in about $2.4 trillion if you exclude FICA that is spent before we even get it and at a Carter era interest rate (11-12%) that would barely cover the interest on the $22T debt. That leaves nothing for anything else the government needs to spend money on. Taxing the Forbes 400 at 90% won't even make a dent in that deficit. All it will do is make them move their money offshore making our problems worse.

Reply to
gfretwell

Do you listen to them at all? Or do you simply nod when they tell you all the free stuff we will be getting.

How long ago was "originally"? Equities have always been traded and anything traded has a bid and asked price. Maybe you spent too much time studying theory in economics class and never heard about the reality. To start with, dividends only come with profits and if people invested, counting on immediate dividends, there would be no startups. Buying stock is a gamble from day one and the value of that bet changes as companies rise and fall in profitability. Are you saying Google should still only be worth $85 a share (before the split)?

Reply to
gfretwell

Your saying it, doesn't make it true. Provide some citations to actual, you know, research that supports your supposition.

Reply to
Scott Lurndal

Neither. When they have a concrete plan I read it. I don't listen to any talking heads (red or blue) on the idiot box.

And I don't get any free stuff. I pay taxes. More this year than last thanks to Trumps "penalize the blue states" tax plan.

And probably more than you ever have.

Reply to
Scott Lurndal

What is true is that the wealthy will be looking to move stuff out of taxable situations. France had a bunch of billionaires move across the street to Belgium.

You can be sure the accountants and tax lawyers are already making plans on how to set up trusts or start new religions or whatever it takes to reduce payout.

Reply to
Ed Pawlowski

Which part confuses you? That Carter had a 11-12% interest rate on federal paper. That is fact That the debt is $22T? Fact That 12% of $22T is $2.64T? Fact That the total revenue minus the FICA is $2.4T? Fact That the fact that the FICA is not even covering the outlay for the people we promised it to? Fact

You can't just say "NO" without being ready to tell me what part is wrong. Tell me which one is not true.

Reply to
gfretwell

Ever is a long time. I used to live up in a tax happy state when the bite was almost 30% of my gross just in state and federal income tax. That was before the other taxes.

Reply to
gfretwell

No point, they are fuckwits on that.

All the middle class in here are doing fine.

While Ralph could be doing better, that has nothing to do with the 2009 fiasco, its just the result of what the operation he worked for not being able to compete with china.

But you did mindlessly wave it around.

And neither of them have ever been stupid enough to make the earlier even more stupid claim.

Reply to
Rod Speed

But its still a stupid claim that if they get to do what they propose, that the result of that would be much worse than 1929

Reply to
Rod Speed

Plenty of them werent, they were invested in the company.

Problem is that it took a very long time for amazon to show a profit and those immense costs have to be paid for somehow.

Twitter still doesn’t make a profit and neither does uber and it is very far from clear that either of them ever will.

Tesla in spades.

Reply to
Rod Speed

We have Capital Gains tax in Canada - with a reasonable lifetime exemption and Canadian investors still invest pretty aggressively in equities. Business startups are thriving.

Reply to
Clare Snyder

Bullshit.

More bullshit, most obviously with Japan.

More bullshit with India and Bangladesh etc.

Even sillier than you usually manage and that's saying something with Boeing and GM and Ford alone.

That's bullshit to with the started claim.

That's bullshit too. That happened during WW2,

That's bullshit too.

That's bullshit too.

They economy is doing fine with a bit of a slowdown world wide. Slowdowns at times are inevitable, stupid.

That's bullshit too.

Oh bullshit. It did fine when Nixon got the bums rush.

Taint gunna happen. The USA is STILL where the full commercialisation of almost everything happens first and that's not going to change any time soon.

Yes, most manufacturing except with cars and planes and military hardware is now done offshore, but that been very good for the consumers and the US economy keeps doing fine regardless, because manufacturing is only a time part of any modern first world economy now.

Fantasy.

Even sillier than you usually manage and that's saying something with govt debt. The reason that interest rates on govt securitys wont spike is because there is nowhere else for china to put its money, stupid.

But its less clear that we will see Carter era interest rates again.

And the govt debt was much higher when WW2 ended and it was perfectly possible to reduce it dramatically over time even while still spending much more on the cold war then.

That isnt how the dramatic reduction in govt debt after WW2 had ended was done.

Reply to
Rod Speed

Interest rates on govt debt arent going back to 11-12%

Reply to
Rod Speed

I suppose the question I don't have the answer to is whether Canada gives tax preference to long term capital gains over ordinary income. If so, that is all we are talking about. Could we look at those rules? Sure. I am not sure 1 year is "long term" and I am not sure the profit on homes should be sheltered (zero up to a half million or something) but it is what it is. Voters determine tax policy for the masses and big money determines it for the rest. Essentially we have voted the deficits we like to blame politicians for. Everyone is ok taxing the other guy but they don't want to pay themselves. That is why half of us don't pay income tax at all. When my wife was working and we were making low 6 figures, we paid 11%, now that she is retired too, it is more like 4%.

Reply to
gfretwell

In the late 40s and early 50s Japan was still a smoking hole in the ground struggling to make a living making cheap copies of American goods. It wasn't until the transistor age that they actually made anything worth buying and it wasn't until the 70s that they made a decent car. Things moved pretty fast for them after that but that is not what we are talking about. The nose bleed US taxes were before JFK.

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Reply to
gfretwell

And you know this how?

Reply to
gfretwell

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