toilet tank float

[grodenhiATgmailDOTcom]

I have a toilet (Kohler) that has a float instead of the ball on the stick (I know.... I have no idea the real terms). The problem is the float seems to have an issue rising as the water rises. In other words, the float starts to rise once it gets about 1/4 submerged, but then stops rising and gets about 3/4 submerged, then shoots back up to about 1/4 submerged and so on. This causes the water to shut off instantly on one of the quick shoot ups (causing water hammer). I have drained the tank and the float seems to travel up and down without any sticking points. Do the floats wear out? If so, can I simply buy a new float, or do I need to get a new water setup (again, no idea the real term).

[Rich Greenberg]

This is an educated GUESS.

The ballcock assembly (float, arm, and valve) is sticking somewhere. If it were me, I would remove the entire assembly and replace it with a Fluidmaster ballcock assembly. No arm, the float is more compact and once adjusted properly will work well. Read the installation instructions carefully.

[grodenhiATgmailDOTcom]

I think thats what I do have (well the Kohler version of it). The float is a black ring around the fill pipe that rises with the water and turns off the water by turning off the supply via a switch at the top. The problem is, the floats starts out rising with the water but then gets "stuck" until its nearly submerged, then is shoots up to where it should be, and gets stuck again and bobs , this second bobbing turns off the water VERY quickly causing the pipes to shake. I have drained the water and moved the float up and down its entire run and I can't feel any sticking point at all. My first guess was the float has a leak or something. The assembly seems cheap (10-15 dollars) but what's involved to install it? Do you think a new one will fix the problem? Shouldn't the float move up evenly (as the water does). Thanks in advance!!!

[Jeff Wisnia]

You may not get away from that "water hammer" thing that easily. Some of those systems have a toggling action which causes the water to shut off quickly when the float finally rises high.

Play with the float by moving it by hand with the water to the toilet turned on and see if lifting it gently to the shutoff level gives you a quiet shutoff without that water hammer. If it does, then your analysis is correct, and a new fill valve assembly may fix things. (I like "Fluidmasters", and they cost less that $10 at box stores.)

You could also try just partially opening the supply valve to that toilet to see if there's less of a water hammer when the incoming flow is a little slower.

HTH,

Jeff

[grodenhiATgmailDOTcom]

Good idea (trying it by hand to see if that takes care of it). This just started happening around the same time I adjusted the float to stop the tank from continually overfilling. I have adjusted the float and water supply several times, it lessens the hammer but I still get some. Why would it be the toilet only (ie, none of the sinks, sprinkler system, or washing machine do this)? If worst comes to worst, what is the cost for a water hammer arrestor?

[grodenhiATgmailDOTcom]

Follow up.... I tried the manual movement of the switch and it still made the water hammer noise. It feels like on the switch that there's no slow transition between on and off, it suddenly shuts the water. Just to be sure..... the noise I hear comes from 1 location in the basement, it's of the water pipe rubbing against the joist for the floor (sounds like a rattling/rubbing noise as the pipe shakes for a second or two). Is there a new ballock I can buy that closes slowly (do they wear out and now mine closes suddenly or something). I hate to put too much time/money into this if its only caused by the toilet. Why would it suddenly start up?

[Jeff Wisnia]

Have you considered simply trying to restrain the pipe so it doesn't vibrate like that, it should be pretty easy to "tie it down" or jam something soft between it and what it rattles against.

I've got a feeling that most new fill valves will "snap" closed. The ancient "ballcock" valves just squeezed the water off more and more as the float rose, but sometimes would "squeal" for a few seconds just before they fully closed.

HTH,

Jeff

[Rich Greenberg]

Yes, it should.

Its cheap and easy to replace. Replace it.

[Joseph Meehan]

It is my experience that they all close quickly by design so that there is a clear distinction between open and closed so you don't end up with it almost closed.

I suggest you work at the input end. Partly close the inlet valve. That should take care of it. The last time I checked the instructions for my toilet it had a specification for how long it should take to fill the tank and advised the installer to adjust the valve to allow it to fill in that time.

Your water pressure may have gone up a little and that may be the real reason you are now having a problem. Throttling the intake valve should take care of the problem.

[Chris Lewis]

According to grodenhiATgmailDOTcom :

I consider the float sticking and water hammer two different issues. If you address the latter without the former (ie: cushioning the pipe where it bangs), you might end up with the thing not banging anymore, just flooding the place...

It may be that the float has built up some hard water deposits, and if it's in the slightest bit tilted while the water level rises, it binds.

Wiping the column and the inside of the ring with some CLR (or even hot vinegar) might help.