tiling kitchen counter tops

Any of you have any experience with tiling kitchen counter tops?

I recently installed our new kitchen cabinets and am now at the point where I'm ready to put in the counter tops. Oddly enough I thought the cabinet installation would be the hardest part of our kitchen re- modelling, but now that I've come to the point where I'm ready to put in the tiled counters, I've discovered it may not be quite as easy as I first thought.

My initial thoughts were that I'd simply use 1" marine ply for the base and then put the tiles in place on top of it. But when I ventured onto the net to do some research on the subject I discovered that a number of sites recommend the use of baseboard over the ply, and even the use of mesh above that. In some respects I don't mind the extra trouble, even of having to use the appropriate cement, as I've tiled all the living areas in our home and did a pretty decent job of it, even if I do say so myself. But if I can get away with simply putting the tile straight on top of marine ply I'd prefer just that, as it would make my task somewhat easier.

If the latter option is okay can someone suggest a good epoxy glue to use for the task?

Thanks.......Tim

Reply to
I'm-just-fine
Loading thread data ...

Mortar is used to supply strength along with lath but saying that this is the worst choice for countertop in my opion as it is hard to keep the stains out of the grout and it is extremly un hygenic as tile is porious and prone to chipping on the corners . Epoxy is not safe for food use suggest you think this over

Reply to
jim

I don't understand why more DIYer don't go for the granite slaps which I think is cleaner than tile and install a lot faster. No problem cutting it, the challenge would be the sink undermount cutout. I could get a 8' sheet with bullnose anywhere between $60-$400 and the 8' x 4" high backsplash is from $20 and up.

Reply to
** Frank **

ANYthing is superior to tile for countertops. Just the thought of eating food which was prepped on a tiled and grouted surface makes me gag. There's Corian, granite, formica, stainless, the list goes on and on. You definitely want to re-think tiling your countertops.

Reply to
<h>

Hi again, folks, the question was not on counter top materials. I&#39;m well aware of all the pros and cons involving tile, granite, corian, laminate, wood, stainless steel, and anything else you care to proffer. If some of you prep food directly on tiles than you get what you deserve if you pick up bacteria from the grout. Personally I use cutting boards regardless of the counter top surface I&#39;m using. It&#39;s more hygienic, and much less likely to cause staining or damage to most of the various materials one can use for counter tops. Stainless steel would probably be the perfect choice purely from the point of view of functionality, which is why most professional kitchens are decked out in the material. Aesthetically though it sucks, which is why few home owners have it in their own kitchens.

Tile is the way we&#39;re going, and if anyone would like to help me out by offering some advice on the appropriate technique for base materials I&#39;d certainly appreciate it. As I said, I&#39;ve come across conflicting advice on the matter. Some say I can lay the tile directly onto marine ply with epoxy, others say I have to use a layer of baseboard (and perhaps mesh) over the ply while using an appropriate cement as the adhesive. I&#39;d be grateful for any thoughts on either alternative.

Cheers..........Tim

PS to Jim - I&#39;m a little mystified by your point on epoxy being hazardous where food is concerned. As the tiles and grout would eventually conceal all traces of the adhesive, how do you imagine that food would come in contact with it once the job is completed?

Reply to
I'm-just-fine

wrote in news:4715820b$0$16517$ snipped-for-privacy@roadrunner.com:

yeah, like the "granite slaps" where there are so many flecks in the product that you can&#39;t see the dirt and you get it into your food. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

What the heck is a "granite slaps" , anyway? ha!

Reply to
TD

messagenews:gOmdnWyO5r6Q8IjanZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com...

I have to disagree with you.

To the OP -

You can&#39;t make the surface "too stiff". Imagine someone sitting on the countertop sometime in the future. I like using 3/4" plywood, and bonding cement tile backer to it using a layer of thinset, and nailing the tile backer down with roofing nails. You could use screws, but once the thinset sets up, it really doesn&#39;t matter.

On the first counter I tiled, I used epoxy grout, because is was supposed to be very durable and stain resistant, but I was really unhappy with it over the years and just redid it, 7 years after the original install.

For the last several years, I have been installing 12" x 12" granite tiles on counters, with stone or granite trim for the edges. Looks great - here is a Craigslist post of a rental property that I uses it in:

formatting link
I can&#39;t see what the big deal would be prepping food on such a surface. The grout lines are very narrow and were properly sealed.

BTW, a wet saw sure makes the job go easier...

Best of luck with your project. Feel free to email me off list if you have questions.

JK

Reply to
Big_Jake

Hi again, Thanks for the feedback Jim.

I&#39;m not actually after a critique on which medium to use, as tile is the way we&#39;re going. I&#39;m well aware of the pros and cons of using it, down to the issues with grout and porosity, each of which will be taken care of.

My question is more to do with the technique of putting the material in place - plain marine ply or marine ply in combination with backing board.

Also, your point about epoxy left me a little mystified, as the epoxy won&#39;t be in evidence once the tile and grout have been applied, so how can it possible pose a health risk to food once the job has been completed?

Thanks.........Tim

Reply to
I'm-just-fine

Tile is about the worst countertop you can get, if money is an issue Formica is better. If money is no issue then granite is best by far, Uba Tuba (which is your basic entry level granite) can be had here for around $50 per foot installed.

Reply to
RickH

Where can I get those $60 eight footers? I&#39;m assuming they are two feet wide, not two inches...

Reply to
dadiOH

Yes it is. ______________

Marine ply is overkill. _______________

I&#39;m assuming you have horizontal nailers under the ply to which it will be attached. If so, 3/4 ply is plenty thick enough and...

a. You can put your tile directly on the ply. I&#39;d use tile mastic rather than thinset to lay the tiles.

- OR -

b. Put 1/4" or 1/2" cement board on top of the ply. Use thinset under and nail/screw to the ply. Use thinset to lay the tiles.

Reply to
dadiOH

So you&#39;re seriously saying that you put ALL food on a cutting board? You use a cutting board when you&#39;re packaging up chicken for the freezer. Yes, the actual food stays off the counter since it goes directly from the store package to the freezer bag, but there&#39;s definitely going to be dripping onto the counter, and you just CANNOT get tile and grout clean. When you&#39;re making a salad you never put a whole tomato on the counter? When making a pie crust, you roll the dough onto a 20x40 cutting board? Well, I guess you&#39;d have to on tile, since it&#39;s not exactly a smooth, level surface free of joints. It&#39;s absolutely disgusting and I would never eat food prepped in a tiled kitchen.

Reply to
<h>

To I,am just fine it is called leeching and do what ever you wish just pointing out thats all also make sure you have no open spots under any of the tiles as they could snap if you were to push down on the spot later, The sink should not be undermounted unless you have a corian mount area but I know you don&#39;t want that as it would cost to much but so doe&#39;s redoing countertop. When the area around the sink leaks and bulges from the wood swelling, but just letting you know as Ive only put in more if them then you can imagine. And most will leak and look like hell shortly after cause the water gets underneath them as the caulk seperates from the sink due to weight and temp but go ahead have fun. Use hardy board and lath works fine if still want to know marine is overkill

Reply to
jim

I&#39;m-just-fine, I rush to your aesthetic defense! Tile countertops remind me of visits to kitchens in northern California, where tile had been used a lot for the last century or so. It looks washable (like a bathroom wall does), informal, and cheerful.

Clean-up is accomplished by putting a bit of bleach in the cleaning water; that takes care of the germs.

In my own New England kitchen I added a countertop between stove and main countertops (which are of maple - I&#39;m sure I can hear the uproar of the sanitarians already) by setting extra ceramic floor tiles onto

3/4" plywood, using clear silicone caulk/glue, and leaving no grouting space between them. I used painted lath for the front trim, nailing it t=F8 the plywood edge. This area doesn&#39;t have to handle bare food items, only hot pans and tea mugs, so the sterilizing of the surface isn&#39;t an issue. It always makes me remember fondly my trips to the Bay Area and the Napa valley. Go with tile.

C=2EC.

Reply to
C.C.

According to I&#39;m-just-fine :

I&#39;ve never quite understood the insistance of not going direct to plywood on counterops. People install ceramic tile on floors with less support than

1" marine ply, with vastly higher loading, and _usually_ get away with it. [Mind you, the joists usually aren&#39;t 20-24" OC]

But just about everybody recommends not going directly to plywood, even directly on top of 2x4 stub frame walls holding up drop-in tubs. Go figure.

This may be very CYA recommendations, perhaps not taking into account

1" ply versus 3/4, 5/8 or gasp 1/2" OSB, that are overkill in many situations.

Or it may have something to do with moisture exposure with poor and/or degrading grout. That&#39;d make more sense. If you get the plywood wet, the whole thing might start delaminating and tiles pop off.

Certainly, the full thinset/mesh route will be "better", but it&#39;s likely overkill. You could compromise by adding battens underneath to stiffen the plywood and making _sure_ that you do a good grouting job, seal it well, and reseal periodically.

Reply to
Chris Lewis

Hi again, Thanks for the responses, particularly from dadiOH, Big Jake, Jim, and C.C. I pretty well have in mind what I have to do now to accomplish the task.

To those who say that marine ply is overkill, I&#39;d point out that the reason I&#39;m using it is for the same point a couple of you raised about water leakage and swelling. The marine ply will negate that. My one concern is to ensure I get ply that isn&#39;t too wet, as I don&#39;t want it drying out and warping/shrinking after the job is done.

As for the anonymous poster (aren&#39;t they always?) with a fixation on hygiene, is there anything intelligent or constructive to your posts that had any relevancy to the question that was posed, or do you simply have a problem reading English? Most counter top materials can pose health risks unless meticulously maintained and cleaned. Porous stone counters that don&#39;t have the seal maintained can harbor bacteria, as can wood counter tops. Prepping food, such as cutting up meats or vegetables, on counters such as corian or laminate can damage the surface and create scratches that can also harbor bacteria. Many stone counter tops can also be stained relatively easily unless care is taken to prevent the problem. And as for the direct point about tile and grout, as someone else has already noted if both are well sealed and maintained the problems inherent with the medium should be no more or less of a problem that certain types of stone used for counter tops.

Your pedantic point regarding chicken is also presumptive BS, as we&#39;re vegetarian, and while you may be happy dumping baking items all over your counter top to make cakes we prefer using wax paper, regardless of the surface we&#39;re using. And if you&#39;re trying to suggest that you place your salad items directly on the counter top before cutting them up I&#39;d suggest it&#39;s you who has the problem with hygiene. Like most people, I wash all of my fruit and vegetables under a tap before placing them on a cutting board (or directly in my mouth) to clean off any chemical residues or dirt that might still be in place as a result of the growing process.

In short, if you can&#39;t contribute something meaningful and pertinent why bother going to so much trouble to demonstrate your blow hard tendencies and irrelevant prattle? Do you really like seeing your views on display that much? You&#39;ve contributed nothing of substance, just a leery if somewhat skewered fixation with hygiene that would have made Howard Hughes proud.

Rest assured that your points about gagging over food prepared on tiled counter tops has been noted, as has your point about the fact you&#39;d never eat such food - is that before or after you&#39;ve gagged, by the way? I can&#39;t tell you with what regret we&#39;d have to accept the fact you&#39;d never call round to our meager little home for a meal with our family as a result. After what I&#39;ve read here I can see that we&#39;d undoubtedly be missing out on one of the greatest experiences of our lives.

Cheers..........Tim

Reply to
I'm-just-fine

While popular at the moment, I&#39;d recommend one of the manmades over the natural stones myself.

--

Reply to
dpb

A quick hello again, Sorry to Chris Lewis and SteveB, your posts came in while I was writing my previous post.

Yeah Chris, I agree with your view, I will be going with the idea of putting the tile directly onto marine ply.

And to Steve, tile can look dated if applied in that awful 70&#39;s fashion. If you look around you can see some tile layouts that look very tasteful and warm. We&#39;re going with a slate colored tile that&#39;s

6" square, with wood trim on the edges that will match the color of the cabinets. I&#39;m also setting up the ply base in such a way that I&#39;ll be able to remove the counter tops in 5 - 10 years time with relative ease if we decide that we want to change the look to something else.

Cheers.......Tim

Reply to
I'm-just-fine

I tiled a kitchen counter tops several years ago. The base was Formica or equivalent.

What I used was a mastic. My advice is to read all the comments on this thread and then go to a tile shop that caters to the trade. Tell the guy there what you want to do and buy the stuff he recommends. Buy the tile from him too. They will have all the odd shapes that you might need. I also did the backsplash and had an inside corner. My guy got me the piece of tile that sat on the inside corner of the top and fit perfectly into the inside corner of the backsplash.

Forget about the big box stores and the flooring kinds of places. They will not have all the stuff you need that you don&#39;t even know you need.

Charlie

Reply to
Charlie Bress

on 10/17/2007 11:06 AM I&#39;m-just-fine said the following:

If you haven&#39;t bought the tile yet, when you do, ask the person what is the best way to install the tile, that is, if you are buying it from a tile store. If you are buying it from the big box store, that information may not be available.

Good point. I recently re-tiled my countertop from the 4" ceramic tile to 12" granite tile, and the removal of the old was made easy by the prying up of the plywood from the underlayment.

Reply to
willshak

HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.