Tile/drywall repair costs?

[Jo Ann]

I'm about to embark on getting estimates to have some bathroom wall tile repaired around the tub. The tiles are intact, but the grout isn't, and from what I see, I'm pretty certain there's damage to a wall behind the tile.

Can anyone give me any kind of ballpark on what tile and drywall repair people charge? I know it's impossible to make accurate guesstimates without seeing the job, knowing the area, etc., but I have no idea whether I might be looking at a thousand dollars or ten thousand dollars.

The tub is in a corner with a half-wall built on the third (faucet) side. My guess is that the bottom course of tile will need to be regrouted on two sides, and that most of the tile will have to come off the third side (the bottom course is all but falling off now) and the wall be extensively repaired (it's just a drywall "box" of a wall). Of course, the tub will have to be recaulked after that (not like that touch will be the dealbreaker!)

So -- how scared should I be about how the estimates are likely to look? Bad, take out a second mortgage scared, or just bummed, there goes my tax return scared?

[Steve B]

Your request for an estimate cannot be fulfilled. There are too many variables.

Shop around your market, and find someone who is competent, either through friends and family, through a supply house (they usually have some competent folks), or just ask around.

It is impossible to state an estimate from what you describe, not knowing what may be under the walls, or hidden in there somewhere. I have a man who does fantastic work for $25 an hour plus materials. I would have no reservations to have him do the exact work as you have to do. But then, I'm lucky, and he is a friend. But, he charges that or more for anyone.

Go slow, and find someone you trust, and go by what they say. You should be able to find someone in family or circle of friends.

Steve

[jimmy]

If any moisture remains behind the tile you may have mold problems coming or even exist now. Drywall is not used behind tiled areas, cement board should be used.. Moved into this old house years ago that had plastic tiles laid over plaster walls in my shower, took a few years but the plaster wall disintegrated... Major do over....don't cut corners in a bathroom or you'll regret it.

[John Grabowski]

*I'm in NJ and have met and talked to several tile guys that I have met on jobs. Some of the prices that they have quoted were ridiculously low and I questioned how they can make any money. The response has always been that there is a lot of competition, especially foreign competition who undercut contractors. So your labor costs may not be so bad. However you should be concerned about the quality of the job. You need to educate yourself about what the problems are and what the possible remedies are. Talk to contractors, suppliers, your neighbors, relatives, your hair stylist and anyone else who has some knowledge and experience with a bathroom remodel. My guess is that you should be tax return scared unless this is a very old house.

[hrhofmann]

You are at step 1 of about 6 steps, But, follow the advice given here and talk to folks who may have had similar work done. The more you appear to really know what is involved, the better your chances are of not being taken advantage of.

My guess is that you are looking at removing all the tile from all 3 sides, tearing out the sheetrock/drywall, and replacing it with cement board, and then retiling. If you are at all handy, you could do the removal/demoltion of the tiles and sheetrock, and just hire the installation out. You may have a full-time job for several nights just cleaning the tiles so they can be reused. You might decide to go with all new tiles if your time is shorter than your money. Let us know how you decide to go and then provide some final feedback. That is how we all learn.

[Gordon Shumway]

If there has been any water infiltration around the tub area you will have mold problems. The only way to know if you have mold problems is to remove the tiles and drywall/plaster down to the studs on those walls to investigate.

When any mold problems have been removed or cleaned do not put up more drywall -- use concrete board.

This is the minimum work that will be required to solve your problem. If the problem goes a little further than that you may end up replacing some studs and/or subfloor. Maybe even more than that.

Good luck.

[benick]

You are at step 1 of about 6 steps, But, follow the advice given here and talk to folks who may have had similar work done. The more you appear to really know what is involved, the better your chances are of not being taken advantage of.

My guess is that you are looking at removing all the tile from all 3 sides, tearing out the sheetrock/drywall, and replacing it with cement board, and then retiling. If you are at all handy, you could do the removal/demoltion of the tiles and sheetrock, and just hire the installation out. You may have a full-time job for several nights just cleaning the tiles so they can be reused. You might decide to go with all new tiles if your time is shorter than your money. Let us know how you decide to go and then provide some final feedback. That is how we all learn.

I agree...If it is drywall or plaster it should ALL be torn out around tub/shower and done properly with cement board...But if you do go with the "Band-Aid" approach you will just be doing it again SOON in another spot , then another , then another...You get the idea...It could cost as much as you want to spend depending on the work you do yourself , price of tile and whether you up grade the tub fixtures ect.....I would do everything BUT the tile work myself as it is just labor and not much skill involved...Hopefully you have another tub or shower to use while you go at it.....Of course if money is REALLY tight you could rip the old tile off , patch the drywall and glue on a tub surround...Let us know how it works out....

[DanG]

I agree totally with Benick except for trying to clean and reuse existing tile. You and the installer will be much happier to install new and fresh. It would also be an excellent time to rework and/or replace the mixer, spout, and shower.

Do not consider anyone who says they can patch just a few tiles.

Drywall and Kerdi is an excellent system under the tile. More labor, but also good - new water barrier, cement board, new tile. The Kerdi (or equal) is actually a better system.

[Jo Ann]

Thank you, everyone, I am already feeling more confident just with your guidance and input.

Here are a few variables: "Tax-return scared unless it's a very old house": Uhm...does 120 years count? Yeah, seriously, it's an old "farmhouse Victorian." Because it's old, I'd like to stay away from more modern solutions such as tub surrounds.

I have shopped and asked around quite a lot; for some reason, it's surprisingly difficult to find a "tile guy" around here. Everyone seems to sorta know someone who sorta knows someone but can never get me names/numbers. I've found just two guys in the area so far.

However, I did NOT think about asking people how their bathroom remodels went, rather than asking "hey, do you happen to know a tile guy." Sounds like a good approach and one I'll start using.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that there is already a mold problem. On the third wall (the one I see as the problem wall, although from what you say, it sounds as if the other two might get involved) there is obvious black spotting and plaster crumbling at the bottom by the corner of the tub (not real plaster, plaster from the drywall). I just hold my breath when I'm in the bathroom (ha ha). I do totally understand and appreciate the issues with mold, one of the reasons I don't want to keep delaying this.

I definitely will be replacing the shower fixtures when the job is done (already all set with a reliable plumber, thank God. I practically have to keep him on retainer with this house.) The faucet leaks now and although I got some info from Peerless about repairing it, the parts are no longer available and it looks like a cheezy faucet to me anyway, so I'm opting for replacement. I've already replaced a couple faucets elsewhere in the house and priced shower setups (mixer et al) extensively, so I know exactly how scared to be about that (picture very sad look on my face, as I have learned I seem to have expensive taste in faucets. My plumber is also rather specific about not letting me buy crap, and I figure he oughta know.)

It's very nice ceramic tile that appears sound. I would really like to reuse it if I can, both because of cost and also because there is some other tile work in the bathroom that matches it and is without problems. There are a few spare tiles squirreled away in one of the utility cupboards.

I'm 100% certain all three walls are drywall/sheetrock (unclear about the difference, if any), based on previous experience with other areas of them. The other two really look sound, but I guess we'll see what we see. Is there a way to tell if there is some kind of backer board? One small (1 x 3, maybe) tile has fallen off the far wall; can I look at that exposed surface and figure it out?

I would not be the least surprised to find that corners have been cut; I've found that many many (MANY MANY) times elsewhere in the house. It's always kind of an interesting history to take on any project, because I can quickly see whether the last person to work on it was one of the owners who really took pains with it, or one of the owners who did "whatever" to get a cosmetic, but not correct, outcome.

I hadn't considered doing the tear-off myself -- GOOD idea and I'm not afraid of doing it at all. Even have a Dremel that will supposedly grind out grout and would probably be useful cleaning up tiles (I'm assuming the old adhesive must be ground off --?)

Alas, it is the only bathroom. I like to camp, though, so I know how to rough it if I have to ;)

Thanks again! Will report back as the project advances.

[aemeijers]

How isolated are you? Can you postpone until warm weather, and set up a temporary outdoor shower in back yard, garage, or garden shed, that won't shock anybody? (If it is that old, I assume no floor drains in basement?) Not too hard to run a couple garden hoses from washer connection, and rig some sort of mixing valve and a hand-held shower from dollar store. Same dollar store can yield cheap disposable shower curtains, and any convenient lumber or pipe you have laying around can make something to hang the curtains from.

Scoff, but I've seen it done. Just think of it as a beach shower. As long as toilet and kitchen sink works, you have the basics.

[Malcolm Hoar]

Hehehe. You just found yourself a tile guy.

If you reckon you can get the old tiles off without too many breakages, I reckon you can get 'em back on.

Seriously. You'll find lots of good tiling tutorials on-line. Study a few and you'll pick up most of the tip. Proceed slowly, carefully, and thoughtfully.

It's not rocket science -- they're not Challenger tiles!

[John Grabowski]

*A house that old was built before wiring and plumbing and even central heating were common. Consequently everything was added in over the years. It's safe to assume that there were many people who did work on that house and some may not have been qualified in any trade. Have extra money above your initial estimates standing by because it is a sure bet that you will be opening a can of worms.

It is possible to use the old tiles, but it will be a lot of work to clean them and you will still have old tiles. Shop around. Sometimes you can find discontinued tiles at a discount. Check out salvage yards and contractor supply companies. I would even post an ad on Craigslist. Several years ago I saw an ad on Craigslist for a contractor going out of business. He was very ill and his daughter was selling everything. I got a bunch of tools at a big discount and they also had piles of ceramic and stone tile still in the boxes. I didn't need any at the time, but was very tempted to buy just because it was a fantastic deal.

The job will go quicker if you have all of your materials available before you start. Don't start looking for things after the demolition has begun. Your contractors will go work on other projects while you are trying to pick out a vanity or toilet and they may not return quickly because of other obligations.

You should also consider electrical upgrades such as lighting, ventilation and receptacles for this project.

Can you post some pictures of the current condition?

[krw]

You *really* don't want to do that. I replaced the grout in my last house before I sold it. It took me a week and about $200 in those Dremel bits (I found a place online for them - $10 each was killing me). If I did it again I'd use one of the HF oscillating saws and a carbide blade. In any case, it sounds like your tile is well past that point.

Ripping it all out and redoing the tile isn't very difficult. It's a lot of work and will take you a good week, but it's very do-able. Tile isn't expensive enough to spend any time saving it (yes, you *can* spend a fortune on it, but you don't need to). You can't replace single tiles so any breakage will put you way behind the curve.

Truckstops have showers if you get too grungy. ;-)

[chaniarts]

if the tiles were put on with mastic, you might be able to get it off by freezing the tiles and chipping it off. you'll probably break a bunch of them though.

if the tiles were put on with thinset, get a cheap side grinder from HF with a 5" diamond blade. you can use the side of the diamond blade as a grinder to remove thinset very fast. wear a good breathing mask, as the dust can shut down your lungs, and do this outdoors on a windy day.