Tankless water heaters -- inneresting take.

[Existential Angst]

We've all heard about electric companies having issues with meeting demand on those very few days of the year, almost always in summer heat, when peak load is extreme. I've never heard of a gas utility having trouble meeting demand, of a "gas brownout". ====================================================

Dats cuz tankless gas is rare, and/or is used in low-populated areas. I was just mostly just illustrating the point of "demand", and ultimate viability as a mainstream choice.

So, in one sentence you claim that you are not fluent in the issue and in the next you again claim such a problem would exist. Which is it? And gas is distributed at higher pressure through the system. =============================================================

So is electricity, which doesn't seem to stop blackouts.

I unnerstand IR drop, and friction/pressure drop in water hoses. 'nuff said.

My furnace is 120K btus. My old one was 150K btus. Also, the new one is two stage, so it frequently is firing at only about

80K. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has replaced an old inefficient furnace with a high efficiency one. No reason I see to believe that tankless water heaters are going to bring the gas system to it's knees. And if that was a real problem, I think by now you'd hear the gas companies discouraging customers from installing them.

Which of course has nothing to do with anything I said. ===================================================

Just reiterating an additional limitation of tankless.

Are we a little slow today??

Has Europe or Asia, where tankless is a large installed base had problems meeting gas demand? ====================================================

How large is large? How dense is the population where it is installed?

[trader4]

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Again you're claiming the current gas infrastructure could not meet the demand. That's after you said you know nothing about the subject. I find it rather odd that it this problem is real, you are the only one concerned about it. Like, why aren't the gas companies who actually run the system issuing warnings against going with tankless? In fact from what I've seen from both utilities and sources like DOE, they are positive towards tankless.

It's a funny thing. The population of the USA continues to grow by millions a year. Around here, they have put up houses, condos, all over the place. What used to be cow pastures and farm land is now covered with 3500 sq ft houses. Yet, over a quarter of a century, the lights haven't gone out. They haven't even browned out. And I also have not seen crews out constantly replacing the basic 3 wire utility poles running down the roads with huge new towers or similar. That suggest that the existing electrical system expanded gracefully to meet HUGE new demand. You have no evidence as to the capacity of any existing gas systems to suggest that if tankless gas is adopted the same thing won't happen. In fact, the existing gas system also obviously has expanded to accomodate all the new housing, businesses, etc that are using gas, without problems. Any such move to tankless is going to happen over time. We're not going to wake up one morning with everyone suddenly using nat gas tankless, hence you're raising a strawman.

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It's *not* a distinction between tankless and tank type. No one here that I recall ever said that a tankless whole house heater gives anyone instant hot water.

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Is say Tokyo dense enough, where tankless is used extensively? Actually whether it's dense, large or small doesn't matter. What matters is that the system for the customer base is adequate, can grow if needed, etc. And you told us already you know zippo about that. So, all you're doing is spreading FUD.

[George]

My guess your coworker might have been upset because the part was part of a FRU and wasn't available as a discrete part.

Manufacturers typically make most of their profit from the sale of spare and replacement parts.

[George]

They have a mode where the cycle on and run just long enough to prevent freezing. I think that would be asking for trouble.

[George]

>

Its a piece that caters to people who don't reason things out on their own. Many people like to be told what to think rather than reasoning it out on their own. The writer presents some bogus arguments that resonate with the reader and it becomes gospel.

They are also used very extensively in Asia for a similar period and with similar good results. Same is true of the so called "mini-split" A/C and combo A/C heat pump systems. You see them all over Asia but yet the they were mindlessly declared to be silly by many when they appeared here.

[George]

>>>

I don't know. "ET" sounds claims he/she is an expert on thermodynamics (and sh*t)...

[Mitt Romley]

A tankless won't work for me during a power outage.

My natural gas service can NOT supply enough gas to run my 16kW Generac generator and a tankless water heater. The gas company can't upgrade the meter/regulator because of capacity issues in the neighborhood.

I'll stick with a 50 gallon tank.

[Wes Groleau]

Interesting. When did they repeal the federal law that manufacturers must provide car parts for ten years?

[Attila Iskander]

>>>>>>

Sez you But considering all the stupid affirmations and attempts at strawman arguments, you have no credibility left

more blah,blah,blak

Clearly you are deeply into self-abuse I'll leave you to it.

[Attila Iskander]

BULLSHIT There is AMPLE capacity in cold regions to meet short-term demand NatGas is stored in "tank farms" just for that purpose Something you can NOT do with electricity. Which is why you have "brownouts" but not "gasouts"

But let's not let the facts get in the way of your igorance

NatGas stores extra gas in "tank farms" to balance out against peak demand Electrical systems do NOT have such ability. For electricity, you use it or lose it.

LOL Too bad there's a whole slew of other things that appear beyond your "understanding".

Indeed you are.

Far larger and denser than the US, both for Europe and Asia

[trader4]

That's interesting. So, your neighborhood is so fully developed that no one can build a new house or business and use gas? No one can expand a home? Or perhaps a few homes switch from electric cooking to gas? Add a gas pool heater, which is as large or larger than a tankless in terms of gas demand? How about if your neighbor wants to add a nat gas generator, like you have? They can't?

Not saying there aren't cases where gas isn't available or supply could be an issue. Just I think if there isn't gas supply sufficient for a tankless addition to one house because of insufficient supply issues that effect the whole neighborhood that there would be a whole host of problems....

[bob haller]

Locally new homes have been prohibited due to lack of sewage capacity

[krw]

Didn't happen.

[bob haller]

you take the average age at failure, deduct a year or two and replace around that time when its convenient for you.:)

Do tell do you wait for your shinles to be eroded and leaking, or do you replace a bit early? To save damages from leaks?

Do you wait till you run out of gas before filling your tank? or even running really low its tough on the in tank fuel pumps that depend on the gas in the tank to cool them

I used to wait till my battery couldnt start my car to replace it. Now I replace it early, sure it costs a bit more but this avoids getting stuck most likely on a super cold day:(

And alternators now last forever, constant charging of junk batteries is hard on alternators:(

[bob haller]

many years ago a dealer told me there was no such law. That concerned my chevy citation

Sears sold me a $900.00 wood brsh chipper I wore the chipper blade out in ONE MONTH, prepping a home for sale. It was totally overgrown. think forest:)

Sears was unable to provide parts...

lots of products are like that today:(

[krw]

...and how do you determine the "average age at failure"?

Different issue completely. Roofs show wear.

Do you have a water heater gauge?

I fixed that problem permanently.

LOL! You're funny.

[krw]

You just love to change subjects.

...again, and again.

[Attila Iskander]

What manufacturers do is sell "assemblies" They don't have to keep individual parts in inventory, and they can make more money selling you stuff you don't need Same as "wiper refills" when all you actually need is the blade.

[clare]

Other way around - they sell the whole blade when all you need is the refill.

[Mitt Romley]

I don't know the answers to your questions. All I can tell you is the gas company refused my request to increase the capacity of my regulator and meter. I offered to pay for the upgrade. I'm stuck at 220,000 btus.

Not really I problem, I just have to manage my gas usage during a power outage.