Take nothing for granted when working with Electricity

[hibb]

I have gutted out a small room upstairs with the purpose of remodeling it for a home recording studio. The room already had three electric outlets so tonight I was in the process of replacing them and adding a couple more. One of the outlet boxes had a newer set of wires and a very old set of wires attached to it.

I puled the outlet out of it's box and was surprised that it had only one set of wires hooked to it. I removed the wires expecting to find that the two wires had been spiced together but no. The old wire was just a dead end. Just cut off and still attached to the outlet box.

So I sat there and thought about it for a second and wondered if the old wire was still hot. So I trimmed a bit of insulation off so I could get the tester on it and sure enough it was.

So tomorrow I get to start switching breakers off to see what else that wire is hooked to. it disappears behind the wallboard in the next room that I have junked up with stuff I emptied out of the room I am working on. It would be nice to have two circuits for the outlets in that room. One for the computer and other stuff and one for the mixer. The old wire is just two wires with no ground wire. If I can find out where it's next junction is maybe I can pull it through and replace it with new wire.

Wish me luck, I need it.

David

[aemeijers]

Good example of why anyone who opens up any wiring device should have one of those pen-style power detectors in their shirt pocket, and get in the habit of using it every time, even when you 'know' the power is off. In fussing with old work, you never know what some idiot previous owner did 20 years ago.

-- aem sends...

[hibb]

Yep, I tend to test thing in every way possible before risking my hide.

David

[auggie]

ive got a 1952 house with countless un doucumented improvments, ive found junction box's with 4 breakers worth of wires running through it. always use your pen tester

[hibb]

Our house turns 100 this year. A great deal had been updated in the

30+ years we have lived here.

[terry]

Another idea, if working alone, is to not only test as recommended but also plug in a radio tuned to something you can hear from the circuit breaker panel location. Then, flipping off breakers one can tell if you have found the one to deaden that circuit. A friend found 'two' circuit breakers were in contact with the same circuit by doing that! Flipping off and then each single pole breakers, one at a time, the circuit remained energized. But he finally found the two that did! That saved a few trips up and down stairs!

[Nate Nagel]

yikes! that takes a special sort of electrician to create a mess like that. At least whoever did that picked two circuits on the same phase!

nate

[Bill]

Always turn off ALL the power before working on electrical wiring.

Why?

If you do not know why, then ESPECIALLY turn off ALL the power!

[auggie]

de quoted text -

it gets better i had a circut that ran only 2 outlets, and another that ran my whole basment and 2 outlets on the 1st floor

[trader4]

From the description, which isn't totally clear, I don't see any "mess" or a violation of any code or anything surprising. All he says is he has:

an outlet in a box that box has both new wires and and old wires going into it the old wires are all that is connected to the outlet the old wires are live

It's not the way one would normally wire something for new work. But if it's old work, I don't believe it violates any code.

[Pete C.]

The safest thing when working on most any project, be it electrical, plumbing, structural, etc. is to presume whoever worked on it last was a moron, and to thoroughly test and analyze the current situation before doing anything.

[terry]

True; somebody perhaps back in time extended an existing (old wiring circuit) using newer wiring.

[terry]

Yes fortunately both on the same 115 volt 'leg' (not phase although they are commonly mis-called that). They are only 'phases' in a 3 phase installation; very uncommon in North American domestic supplies!

Re switching off ALL power ................. may not be completely practical for reasons of other lighting, furnace or other heating, sump pumps, someon else working in the house etc. etc. But AGREE, be very, very careful.

BTW Not partcularly keen on electrcians who just short out the circuit; 'To see which CB trips'! Or those who put tips of two fingers across the wiring 'To see if it's alive'!

[hibb]

Nope. What it looks like is somebody replaced the outlet, ran new wires from another circuit for power and cut off the old wire and just left attached to the box but not hooked to the outlet. It would have been nice if they had at least tapped up the end of the wire but all the did was cut it off.

[trader4]

OK, now it's clear what's going on. And I agree, that is half- assed and a code violation.

[Nate Nagel]

Someone a few posts back said that they had a recep that wouldn't go dead unless two different CB's were cut off, that's a definite code violation no matter how you look at it.

nate

[Stormin Mormon]

I've used that technique. I've seen electricians use the Jesus Method of locating breakers. I've not tried that one, yet. Someday when I'm more courageous.

Friend of mine has a miswire, when you turn on one breaker, another one pops off. Aparently, two circuits (on two different power legs) got tied together.

[Jules]

I don't need to presume in our place ;-)

[aemeijers]

Now, now, be charitable. Untrained smart people can screw stuff up beyond recognition. Visiting my sister and Herr Doctor Professor BIL, I often have to bite my tongue hard at some of the things he has committed around the house. But he is mostly a good guy (socialist PC politics aside), and better than her previous guys by far, so I play nice and walk him through stuff real slow. And I have to give him credit, he catches on quick, and he ain't afraid to jump right in to projects. He also has a lot more willpower about completing things than I do. (Wonder if not having internet or TV at home helps with that?) My sister is definitely a world-class SWMBO, too.

-- aem sends...

[trader4]

Interesting. Is there something in the code that actually says you can't split a receptacle and put one half on one circuit and the other on another? I agree it would be bad practice. But outlets are often split so that one part is always live, the other goes to a switch. Just wondering if the code actually covers that and says they must be on the same breaker.