swapping out main electrical panel

[clare]

Another one of us who thinks 220 volts is "low voltage" and 100 amps "low current", eh???

[hallerb]

Yeah BRITE flash, I ran a borrowed tiller into my main sercvice cable once:( I hit it where it enters the home from the service drop right at ground level.

I nearly died that day...........

[Tony]

I think it's low voltage in a different way. I can't remember the last time I saw 110/220. It's been 115/130 at the lowest and normally

120/240. Is 220 common many places in the US anymore?

[bud--]

And that is for the low energy end of equipment. At the high end you might need an "arc flash suit" - don't know how people can do anything useful in those. And some equipment you may not be able to safely work on at all while energized.

Arc flash made it into the NEC (in 2005?).

I believe OSHA requires employers to have a protection plan including a permit scheme for working on live equipment (highly discouraged) and having appropriate "personal protective equipment" available. The default standard for electrical safety (including arc-flash) is NFPA70-E (the NEC is NFPA70) - good reading for anyone working live on high current, particularly 480V equipment.

On of the sharpest electricians I know was working (service call long ago) in an industrial plant and wanted to measure the current for a motor. It was a food plant and the motor starters were in a "purged" room and in a motor control center (multiple 480V starter cubicles in the same frame). He defeated the door interlock and put a clamp-on ammeter on the motor wire - an absolutely common measurement. The guess is that there was a loose screw that faulted the bus bars. There was an arc-flash and he had serious burns including condensed copper that vaporized. He was in the hospital for a long time. Could have been a lot worse. (They were buying 'primary' voltage power, and the fault destroyed one of the high voltage fuse holders.)

I heard a person, who was probably a field engineer for a company like Westinghouse, describe measuring a cubicle with a steel tape (long before anyone knew about arc-flash). The explosion blew him across the room. If it hadn't he would probably be dead.

[Ralph Mowery]

We do have rated arc-flash equipment. Several differant size (rated) overcoat looking things. Helments or hoods with face shields. Rated gloves. We seldom use them except to check to see if voltage is on the circuits or to take amp readings under load. Kill the power and then take the stuff off. Hoods are so tinted and many areas are so dark it is difficult to see. Most load control centers have markings on them as to what level of protection we need.

[zzyzzx]

Before you bother with that you could try testing your existing FPE breakers. I have them, and I have load tested all of mine, and they work fine. The main problem with them is the double pole breakers. The only one of mine that didn't work right was a double pole that really two single brakers ganged with a crimped piece of metal on the breaker lever itself. I would not trust any brand or model that worked that way. My other observation was that the older red ended ones tripped slower than newer white ended levered breakers. Other than that they all worked just fine. I would have replace the panel myself by now if I could do it myself, but I'm not inclined to break the seal on the meter myself and I'm also not interested in paying someone dumber than me an extra $1000 for something that really isn't that hard.

[bud--]

I know you must have operated the breakers many times before testing knowing that the failure rate is much higher after mechanical operation.

I'm sure you tested at both 135% and 200% of rating. Surprising how many breakers didn't trip at all at 135% - over half in some tests. Where did you get the acceptable trip times at 135% and 200%; this doesn't seem to be easily available information. Also what did you use for the current source. I'm sure in addition to the tests on breakers up to 80A that was done for the CPSC, you tested the service disconnect which is probably 100A. What did you use for the 200A current source?

When testing trip under overload I wouldn't even bother to test 2 pole breakers with equal current on both poles because the failure rate is much higher with overload on only one pole. Far as I know, all 2 pole breakers have an internal common trip in addition to the handle tie, and the internal trip mechanism can jam under un-equal load so the breaker never trips In addition did you also test with equal current on both poles?.

Are the busses in your panel made of multiple parts screwed together? If they are you probably took the panel apart so you could determine if the bus connections were loose and arcing. It would be much easier if this damage could be seen without disassembly. How did you do this without pulling the meter?

But it could be your breakers and panel were not made during the period when FPE was fraudulently sending false information to UL, and your equipment was not among that delisted by UL.

In short, I applaud our effort in making sure your panel is safe. It would be of great benefit to others if you could provide instructions on how you did your tests.

[hallerb]

testing would matter at home resale time FPE will discourage buyers and make obtaing homeowners insurace for the buyer near impoosible killing the sale....

no one will care squat about your testing and once a FPE breaker trips due to moverload its much less likely to EVER trip again........

[zzyzzx]

I have never heard of anyone having insurance problems because of a FPE panel.

I've had trips.

Also, I wouldn't trust anyone's breakers if they are old enough, unless I had a good reason. I.E. - even if I had an older GE or SD panel and I wanted to keep it I'd buy all new breakers.